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/asp/ - Alternative Sports

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Anonymous 06/20/14(Fri)14:25 UTC+1 No.435748 Report

How do I go about becoming a self-taught martialist?

I don't want to spend money on the thousands of phony schools in my area.
>>
Anonymous 06/20/14(Fri)14:31 UTC+1 No.435749 Report

>>435748
I swear to god we have this same thread every week and we give the same answer every week.

YOU. CAN'T.

If there is absolutely nothing but mcdojos around you look into your local gyms. At least one of them probably offers boxing.
>>
Anonymous 06/20/14(Fri)15:14 UTC+1 No.435761 Report

>>435748
Fight a lot and hope you're lucky and won't die or get crippled.

Musashi wasn't self taught, by the way, no matter what the stories say. His own sword school was strongly influenced by his father's style.
>>
Anonymous 06/20/14(Fri)15:36 UTC+1 No.435766 Report

>>435748

>How do I go about becoming a self-taught martialist?

Don't do that, OP.
Trust me.

You got no feedback so you have no idea about what you are actually doing. You'll develop a bunch of bad habits and you won't even notice what you are doing wrong.

Get you lazy ass up and make a trial lesson in every martial art dojo arround and stay where you feel good.
>>
Anonymous 06/20/14(Fri)22:20 UTC+1 No.435984 Report

>>435749
>YOU. CAN'T.
Well, this is bullshit. The first guy that invented a fighting system did it alone. I'm guessing he just fought a lot, learned the most important things (managing the distance and the balance, blocking, grabbing the opponent's arms, etc.) and practiced until he found techniques that were effective.

It definitely can be done. Frankly, between someone that trains on his own imitating other people techniques everyday for hours religiously and the common fag that goes to a gym 2 or 3 times a week, I'd be more afraid of the first one. Not only because he's clearly crazy.
>>
Anonymous 06/20/14(Fri)22:23 UTC+1 No.435989 Report

>>435766
>You got no feedback
Sure you do: the streets.
>>
Anonymous 06/20/14(Fri)22:28 UTC+1 No.435996 Report

>>435984
Fighting systems evolved over thousands of years' one guy didn't just fucking make it up in his lifetime.

>>435989
>DA STREETZ

Where the hell are these streets that you can just go out and get into fights for no reason without starting shit that will put you in a prison or in your grave?
>>
Anonymous 06/20/14(Fri)22:50 UTC+1 No.436013 Report

Here's my advice OP.

Say you spend $200 a month on MA classes. This is like socal popular MMA or BJJ prices so high but thats the point.

Put all that money a month away. With your usual vacation/joy money.

Just save, don't waste on stupid things you'll need the money.

Save up vacation hours and take the money with you to train full time all day every day at a place of your choosing. Try to shop around and try a few days at different places so you don't waste all that money.

Spending 8 hours a day every day like it was your job (or more) is a good way to git gud in a few weeks.
>>
Anonymous 06/20/14(Fri)23:35 UTC+1 No.436044 Report

>>436013
Training for 8 hours a day is also a great way to injure yourself.
>>
Anonymous 06/20/14(Fri)23:39 UTC+1 No.436048 Report

Right. So you admit that you're untrained and unexperienced. Then you flippantly denounce every single martial arts school in your area as mcdojos.

How about you actually get off your fat ass and go train? Work through them systematically. Either train for a month at each one and find the best fit, or pick one and stick with it until you stagnate and then move on.

You don't know what you don't know. Humility is a virtue.
>>
Anonymous 06/21/14(Sat)00:55 UTC+1 No.436121 Report

>>435748
Kill yourself
>>
Anonymous 06/21/14(Sat)01:01 UTC+1 No.436133 Report

>>435748
>Hay guise I'm going to teach myself something but I don't know how to do it can you pls teach me how to teach myself?

>dude go to a martial arts school

>no they're phony and won't teach me anything useful, I can teach myself more better than they can teach me despite the fact that I need to ask other people to teach me how to teach myself

OP is a retard
>>
Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)02:11 UTC+1 No.437592 Report

Thread sucks.

Mcdojo is better than nothing... Well maybe not. Make sure you have a car and a job to travel to a good gym.

YOU CAN'T learn by you self for the last time.
>>
Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)02:55 UTC+1 No.437613 Report

>>435748
>Get a manual
>Check reviews
>Find a friend(s) willing to practice/spar
>>
Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)03:05 UTC+1 No.437623 Report

>>437613
>learn almost nothing
>>
Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)03:16 UTC+1 No.437628 Report

>>435748
Martial art is 1) technique and 2) conditioning.
Alone you can learn technique and the physical part of conditioning. But you can't condition your reflexes without sparing. No matter what you choose, if you don't spar, you aren't learning martial arts.
>>
Wu-style Tai Chi Chuan 06/23/14(Mon)03:51 UTC+1 No.437645 Report

>>437623
Is that hinting that OP would learn something?
Wait, isn't that how HEMA guys do it? People don't ridicule HEMA guys, do they?
>>
Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)04:09 UTC+1 No.437658 Report

>>437645
yes they do
>>
Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)04:43 UTC+1 No.437680 Report

>>437645
HEMA wasn't learning alone though. Yes, they studied old shitty manuals, but, more importantly, they then got a few thousand nerds together bashing eachother with swords for 20+ years until they discovered on a real and practical level what actually worked. And if you check out some HEMA youtube videos, you'll see it looks nothing like the pretty swordplay in movies.
>>
Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)04:45 UTC+1 No.437681 Report

>>436048
You don't need to know anything about martial arts to recognize a McDojo.
>rule of thumb: if it seems like bullshitdo, it most likely is
>>
Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)04:50 UTC+1 No.437684 Report

>>437645
>People don't ridicule HEMA guys, do they?
HEMA guys get ridiculed, unfairly in my opinion.

SCA and DnD have done irreparable harm to their image.
>>
FatCobra 06/23/14(Mon)05:07 UTC+1 No.437697 Report

>>437681

Who cares? A free class is a free class, and almost every martial arts place I've ever heard of offers an introductory session to see if you like it.

Even if you get 1.5 hours of terrible McDojo training, it probably won't spoil you since you have no skill to begin with. Best case scenario, a place you previously wrote off as a McDojo turns out to be a great school and you stick with it for a long time. Worst case scenario, you sit through one really bad Krav McGraw class, learn nothing, and never return. Worst, WORST case scenario, you and your dumb little friends decide to try to learn martial arts from tv, books, and the internet, you hurt yourselves, mom yells at you, and when you walk into a real dojo after a year of teaching yourself and show them your own brand of made-up shit they laugh you out the door like your name was The King of Stickfighting.

Not sure if you're OP, but post some schools from your area, we'll just fucking pick one for you so you don't get screwed. And don't try to teach yourself, please, /asp/ tells people this like every week. A buddy of mine wanted to learn some martial arts from me in college and when I asked him how much experience he had, he told me "over a year, self-taught" and his chest literally swelled with pride at how much he thought he would impress me. I ended up doing nothing but fixing his bad form until he finally got frustrated and pissed that I was changing what he had been practicing for months. I don't proclaim to be amazingly skilled or experienced, but these were simple things like turning your toes down on a sidekick and not using muscle on judo throws, stuff that he simply couldn't know because he had no instructor in person to show him how a technique is supposed to feel. It's easier for a teacher to start from scratch with someone than re-educate them because they thought they were smarter than the professional martial arts teacher.

I defy you to learn shit like .gif related just by watching it.
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FatCobra 06/23/14(Mon)05:13 UTC+1 No.437703 Report

>>437697

It's also worth mentioning that I tried self-teaching for pretty much my entire adolescence and after just a few months of taking formal classes at age 18, I felt like a retard for even trying. I mean, would you try to teach yourself Spanish or would you have a friend who speaks fluent Spanish, or better yet, pay an actual Spanish teacher to help you? You would not only get better faster, but you would learn all sorts of stuff from having someone to correct you and share their expert knowledge.

I think this is all about OP being cheap or thinking he can do something better than a professional. Like I think the same people who want to teach themselves martial arts have also tried cutting their own hair at some point.
>>
Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)08:12 UTC+1 No.437809 Report

>>437613
That is none of the benefits of learning on your own and all the drawbacks.

The real way to self teach is to have a large circle of people who know how to fight and spar with them. Imitate what works, innovate when you have ideas, but most importantly test it against diverse opponents. If you have one sparring buddy, let's name him Frank, you will spend a couple years developing the world's finest anti-Frank style that does jack shit to people who aren't Frank.
>>
Wu-style Tai Chi Chuan 06/23/14(Mon)08:32 UTC+1 No.437825 Report

I think training yourself is stupid.
But if you were training just forms and you took some classes to learn all of the stances I bet you could learn forms through a book. Might not help you fight but it'd be fun.
>>
Kyoko-chan 06/23/14(Mon)17:15 UTC+1 No.437977 Report

>>435748
What was that one movie where the guy learns kung fu by mimicking kung fu movies in a movie theater? The one with that guy from The Killer? It was an american movie.

But you could try that, OP. Not saying you'll get any good, but you could try.

Or you could just spend $30-$50 a month on a boxing gym and actually guarantee that you'll learn to fight.
>>
Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)17:22 UTC+1 No.437983 Report

>>437977
The movie you're talking about is Bulletproof Monk
>>
Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)17:31 UTC+1 No.437992 Report

>>437809
>the world's finest anti-Frank style
A WEAPON TO SURPASS METAL GEAR
>>
Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)17:50 UTC+1 No.438011 Report

>>437703
pretty much all english i know is self taught. i learned it by playing video games, playing online, using a dictionary and browsing the internet. it's not impossible. of course i've been doing this for more than 10 years.

also, before joining a bjj and judo gym, i read a lot about the techniques and general aspects of fighting, and sparred with friends. both in judo and bjj they said i was very good for someone who just entered the gym and one of the strongest white belts. so, i don't know.
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FatCobra 06/23/14(Mon)17:56 UTC+1 No.438014 Report

>>438011

But would you not have learned faster, and learned better English with an actual English teacher?

I learn from books and the internet all the time, hell, I learn something new almost every time I visit /asp/. But I know that without someone to refine what I'm doing and teach me in person, I'll never be as good as I could be if I had formal instruction.
>>
Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)18:34 UTC+1 No.438037 Report

>>438014
probably. BUT i have excellent scores in english tests, i was going to be hired to teach advanced english classes in schools but couldn`t due uni. but you are probably right. the good thing is that i learned only the things i needed in the moment, no stress over tests, learned it during my freetime doing things i enjoy, didn't have to pay anyone, etc.
i also learned how to draw by reading books and practicing and so on. i`m not very good but i know it's perfectly possible to improve a lot without a teacher. but i do agree with you, maybe with a teacher i could have learned faster.
i THINK the main thing you need is feedback, and that's the problem with fighting. if you are not fighting other trained people, you will never know how much you've improved and what you need to work on.

by the way
i seriously believe that if you threw a bunch of completly untrained guys to fight each other nonstop in a hyperbolic chamber with a plenty of senzu beans, given enough time some would come out as good as UFC fighters, maybe with their own martial art system.
i mean, all good martial arts had to be developed by someone at some point, and with enough experimentation, people figured out what worked and what didn't. just a thought.
>>
FatCobra 06/23/14(Mon)18:52 UTC+1 No.438048 Report

>>438037

That's definitely true, and your english is obviously very good. It's not impossible to learn stuff by yourself, I'm sure I could teach myself some basic guitar just by using youtube. But eventually I would probably want to seek instruction if I had aspirations of being able to shred and play really complicated shit.

Plus, with something like martial arts, muscle memory usually plays a big part, depending on what kind of learner you are. Some people can watch something and learn it, others have to get a technique done to them.

I guess when it comes to martial arts, I wouldn't advise the cheap DIY approach. Unlike english or guitar, not knowing martial arts when you think you do could get your ass kicked. I guarantee you that if you took a set of identical twins, enrolled one in martial arts and made the other self-teach, the twin with formal training would fuck up his brother 99% of the time. I would love for a "self-taught martialist" to come fight me, I'd have the time of my life tying him in knots. And you know he's going to be way overconfident from never having had his shit pushed in. As far as he knows, his DVDs and subscription to Black Belt magazine have made him invincible.

This shouldn't even be up for debate, you guys. Training > no training. How is this even an issue?
>>
Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)19:27 UTC+1 No.438077 Report

What is the opinion on training yourself together with some friends?

My club started out as a Taijutsu school, however my teacher got in a motor accident and got an hernia. He isn`t really able to fight or teach anymore now.
So his best student took over for a while and the training still was interesting to me, partly because i was new and we don`t have any other Taijutsu school in my vicinity.

Long story short, his knowledge wasn`t as good as the original teacher of course but i didn`t want to give up Taijutsu. I was looking around for all the other kinds of MA in my area and took lessons in Krav Maga, TKD, BJJ and Boxing (which i still take every now and then).

Apparently some other students did the same, and now 5 years later we started our own club where we train for an evening in the week. Mostly we try to train in Taijutsu mixed with some other kind of MA to make a few things more practical. However it feels a bit incomplete to me, can someone give me some advice on how to improve this club?
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Mademoiselle Pomf 06/23/14(Mon)19:38 UTC+1 No.438089 Report

Don't get fooled by all this bullshit, OP. YOU CAN! You just need about 1500 years to experiment everything, see what works and get better in various fights all over the world. You'll create the greatest martial art and become the greatest fighter.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)19:44 UTC+1 No.438093 Report

you can teach yourself decently as long as you have at last someone that you can spar with and try things out.

Anyone who thinks you can teach yourself any martial art without even sparring is delusional.
Its like thinking you can get good at sex by fapping on your own.
>>
Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)20:52 UTC+1 No.438117 Report

>>435748
>How do I go about becoming a self-taught martialist?

Well, if you want to learn how to do something well, then you have to practice that particular thing. If you want to learn how to fight, then you have to practice fighting. And if you want to learn how to fight human beings in melee, then that's what you have to practice.

This, however, does not mean that you couldn't train things that can give you an edge in fights.

Strentgh training, aerobic training, agility training, learning how to punch and kick without breaking your own body, practising coordination - those are all things that you can do on your own.

Lift weights, go running, do parkour or just climb trees and do cartwheels or whatever, play squash on your own, get a punching bag and beat the hell out of it...

You need to spar with/fight other people in order to learn to fight other people, but if indeed your local martial arts schools are crap (and many are, or at least they're exceedingly expensive), you're probably better off conditioning your own body for a year or two, so that at least you won't buy into some "magic chi powers" or "chinese medicine" -crap that many dojos are selling at the expence of actual physical conditioning.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)21:44 UTC+1 No.438135 Report

>>435996

The Streets... Of Rage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiJMHtA7--w
>>
Anonymous 06/24/14(Tue)00:25 UTC+1 No.438258 Report

>>435748
Meditate, pose in front of a mirror, and rub 10cc of placebo on your body every day. Also buy and wear a headband that had Chinese writing on it
>>
Anonymous 06/24/14(Tue)04:18 UTC+1 No.439286 Report

>>438077
I'm in a similar situation. The instructor had to move after a year, but gave us access to his online videos and is close enough to visit about once a month. So a few other students and myself are going to try working through it on our own.
The reason I think this will work is, like you, I have a background with several of proper training.
I think with that experience, I have enough understanding of body mechanics and experience with similar techniques that we can figure the stuff out. Plus we'll spar every meeting too, so what we can't decipher, we can learn through trial and error. (or scrap it for something tried and true)
>>
Anonymous 06/24/14(Tue)04:59 UTC+1 No.439313 Report

>>439286
several *years
>>
Anonymous 06/28/14(Sat)03:47 UTC+1 No.442279 Report

>>435984
Fighting systems were put together by really smart, naturally talented people who had a lot of first hand experience in fighting. And, most of them probably had outside help as well. If you're a shitty fighter, the only way to get better is by fighting, which is dangerous and takes a long time, or by practicing with a non-shitty fighter who can tell you why you're so shitty.

Practicing someone elses techniques isn't going to make you any better, it's just going to make the techniques shitty, because you're going to do it wrong.

And don't think that you won't, you will. I've been helping my teacher with students for about 2 years now, and I've never seen an inexperienced student get it right on the first try.

Even if they have experience, they still usually do something wrong.
>>
Anonymous 06/29/14(Sun)09:50 UTC+1 No.442993 Report

>>442279
of course they will do something wrong, that`s why you have to train techniques. Otherwise why bother studying a martial art at all if you can do all the moves just like that.

However if you can analyse the steps in a technique and make them your own and practical, who`s to say you can`t teach yourself some techniques?
>>
Anonymous 06/29/14(Sun)11:58 UTC+1 No.443018 Report

>>438093
This is the exact same argument I wanted to make.

Fighting takes two people and practice, just like tennis and sex does too.

Bouncing a ball against a wall all day will only very, very marginally help you in tennis, and masturbating will let you get to know yourself better, it helps, but it doesn't help that much.

Even sparring with only one partner won't teach you much, like only ever playing against one dude in tennis or having only one sexual partner.

So, always try out anything, boxing, kick boxing, whatever, something might stick.
>>
Anonymous 06/30/14(Mon)03:38 UTC+1 No.444571 Report

>>442993
Because the guy who created the original technique knows better than you. Your copied/modified technique is going to be useless because you have no experience of your own to be sure if it actually works or not.
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