[ 3 / a / adv / an / asp / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / g / gd / int / jp / k / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / o / out / p / po / sci / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / v / vg / vp / vr / w / wsg / x]

/asp/ - Alternative Sports

<< back to board
[Delete this thread]

File: Satoru_Sayama_1[1].jpg-(24 KB, 435x550)
I would like, if I may, to...
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)05:43 UTC+1 No.417125 Report

I would like, if I may, to take you on a strange journey. One, to an alternate timeline, where instead of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu rising to predominance, shootfighting became the main style of grappling.

And not just grappling, fighting in general. shootfighting as an all inclusive fighting system, forged way back in the early 80's (first event was in 76).

Let's see what this would look like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrxVnKjeMTw

>that Yori Nakamura money shot
>that Satoru Sayama
>those throws

That is 10x more exciting than the UFC where everything goes to decision. And it's because neutered wrestling and BJJ are the dominant styles of grappling.

Remember Pride? Let's face it, the Japanese are superior entertainers. I'm not sure why, but I think it is because they are part retarded.

"Oh no that shit was fixed" you say

First of all, who gives a fuck. It was ten times more entertaining. That's what matters. It's an entertainment venue.

Secondly, how do you think BJJ and the UFC gained prominence? Could it be by not letting the best fighters from Japan compete? Or even America? The Gracie's wouldn't let Erik Paulson compete in the same tournaments as them. The one time they TOLD HIM that he could (and didn't even end up fighting the Gracie) they wouldn't let him train with them anymore.

It's pretty obvious the early UFC was a set-up to showcase BJJ but not allowing any serious competitors. They knew people with no grappling experience would stand a chance.

Oh, what about Ken Shamrock you say? They didn't take him seriously. His performance came as a complete surprise to them.

If Shooto had picked up in America instead of BJJ, things would be a lot more interesting. That is a fact.

>implying I don't supplement my training with BJJ
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)05:47 UTC+1 No.417127 Report

This is a gay fanfic
stop typing and go train
Instead of living in lala land why not train more. I bet your faggot ass doesn't even train any grappling except gay crappling role play with your roommates thinking you can take down BJJ guys and submit wrestlers. And then call it shoot fighting.

You know how I can tell you don't train? you spout shit like this. You're the cancer killing this board.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)05:47 UTC+1 No.417128 Report

>>417125
My trainer did shoot when he was living in japan. He's putting me in touch with some people when I move there later this year. Should be bretty gud
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)05:49 UTC+1 No.417130 Report

>>417125
Look at Japan's current MMA scene. Its dead. if it became famous in America it would have lasted 4 years before a federal grand jury would indite everyone involved for having ties with the Yakuza.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)05:57 UTC+1 No.417133 Report

>>417125
Go back to your wrestling general threads
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)06:02 UTC+1 No.417134 Report

>>417127
I train in BJJ so I would assume I can take them down since I am doing the same thing they are. Seems like a pretty good bet.

I'm guessing you don't know what shooto is

>>417130
I thought everyone always assumed the UFC had ties to organized crime in Las Vegas

>>417128
There are gyms everywhere from what I understand. The people I have trained under trained shoot wrestling in the states under yori.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)06:04 UTC+1 No.417136 Report

>>417125
Ken Shamrock is overrated as a "shootfighter,"

He's seriously not that good.

Minowan was much much better, and Ken's brother Frank was a much more well-rounded fighter than Ken, but anyways.

You're a faggot, OP.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)06:08 UTC+1 No.417139 Report

>>417134
whats your BJJ rank and linage?
white belt second stripe?
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)06:08 UTC+1 No.417140 Report

>>417136
No disagreement on Ken from me.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)06:09 UTC+1 No.417141 Report

>>417125
Aside from the fact that there's be a higher number of Elevens competing in UFC, unlike now where it's just Gomi and 5 korean dudes, nothing would really change.

Americans and Brazilians are major players in MMA, and they gave rise to the popular wrestling + mt + boxing + bjj combinations that we're all so used to.

Stop fantasizing and go train, OP.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)06:13 UTC+1 No.417143 Report

>>417141
Russia is making a huge run into the North American MMA scene with a lot of sambo guys ranking high or on win streaks in UFC and Bellator.


Asia is still struggling. Not just Japan but look at Korea and China's TUF season was god awful.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)06:20 UTC+1 No.417145 Report

>>417143
That's true, but that's because those Russian guys are actually quite skilled.

Not trying to put down Nippon fighters, but to be perfectly honest, the talent pool isn't very big there. MMA and shooto are still very popular there, but many of the fighters find little to no success overseas.

Japanese fighters are usually just not as well-rounded as western fighters, sadly. Look at the most popular jap fighters. They weren't really known for winning championships or their domination of the MMA scene.

They were known for being very entertaining. As much as I love Kazushi Sakuraba, if you take a glance at his record, it seems mediocre, aside from the Gracie fights (Gracies are overrated as fighters too)

The reason he's so remembered today was because of his showmanship and creativity.

I'm a Shinya Aoki fan, but Aoki did terrible against Alvarez and Melendez.

Jap fighters need to step it up.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)06:21 UTC+1 No.417147 Report

>>417143
not so skilled when an over the hill can like Tito Ortiz chokes you out.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)06:28 UTC+1 No.417150 Report

>>417139
lelz
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)06:32 UTC+1 No.417152 Report

>>417139
Never bothered testing, I wear a white belt when I go to class just like several of our pro fighters. Of course, I am not nearly as good as they are. I'm told I should be a blue belt.

I don't really care about ranks. Neither do they.

Why does it matter anyways? I never challenged the effectiveness of BJJ. I just said that the Gracie's are assholes - which is a fairly well known fact. Hell, I've heard plenty of stories from my instructor who was training with them out of their garage in the late 80's. He does not have his belt under them though.

I also said that BJJ based strategies are less interesting to watch. Why get so butthurt? I think most people would agree.

>>417141
It's 12:30 and my gym was closed for memorial day faggot.

Not sure why people are so butthurt in this thread. I thought everyone here agreed that Pride was the superior promotion. How could you not. Do you not have eyes?

>>417145
The Russians are usually pretty fun to watch. That's what it's about. This is entertainement. That is my point. BJJ nuthuggers because they have this faggy macho bullshit attitude about winning. Who gives a fuck. Sure, Sakuraba lost a lot of fights. He was trying high risk manouevres. That's why he was fun to watch.

These promotions exist purely for entertainment. If you are not putting on a good show, you are not good at your job. It doesn't matter how many fights you win.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)06:36 UTC+1 No.417153 Report

you're a faggot OP.
The next time you step on the mat and you get hard I want you to remember that all of 4chan is laughing at you and getting hard to the fact a faggot like you got injured.

Go get cancer.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)06:37 UTC+1 No.417154 Report

>>417152
I see your point, but since UFC isn't as entertainment-minded as Pride, and they're trying to rival boxing and make it look more sport-ish (obviously, there's shady business too) then jap fighters will never find much success there unless they ditch they "fighting to entertain" mindset and start having a "fight to win" mindset.

Then again, many successful western fighters, GSP, Sonnen, Fitch, are terribly boring because they do anything to win. Even if it means becoming a fucking blanket.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)07:01 UTC+1 No.417160 Report

>>417154
Cormier did that for the most part in 173 but that huge slam made up for it
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)07:09 UTC+1 No.417161 Report

>>417154
I think there are some really exciting western fighters too.

Diaz bros, Carlos Condit, Anthony Pettis, Dan Henderson, and I think Urijah Faber is really exciting too.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)07:11 UTC+1 No.417162 Report

>>417161
I'd add dillishaw to that after last week
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)07:13 UTC+1 No.417165 Report

>>417161
Korean Zombie is also fucking fun to watch.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)07:15 UTC+1 No.417166 Report

>>417165
We're talking about western fighters. Korean Zombie is japanese.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)07:28 UTC+1 No.417171 Report

>>417166
I thought he was korean.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)07:32 UTC+1 No.417174 Report

>>417166
Wat
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)07:46 UTC+1 No.417182 Report

the man problem with OPs logic is that entertainment is derived from " exciting maneuvers" and showmanship.

im more entertained by watching GSP grapplefuck someone for 5 rounds than by watching pro wrestling
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)07:49 UTC+1 No.417183 Report

>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)07:51 UTC+1 No.417184 Report

>>417182
I much prefer strikers but that's probably since I'm mostly striking background.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)07:57 UTC+1 No.417188 Report

>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)07:58 UTC+1 No.417190 Report

>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)07:59 UTC+1 No.417191 Report

>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)08:01 UTC+1 No.417193 Report

>>
PuroHook 05/27/14(Tue)08:02 UTC+1 No.417194 Report

>>417125
Oh boy.

Firstly, Shooto incorporated large elements of BJJ as well as freestyle and catch wrestling. Especially after Tiger Mask taught his first generation of students and Yori got hold of it. And BJJ incorporates techniques from catch/freestyle wrestling. So... yeah. They're much the same in terms of what they teach, as they were both hybrid grappling styles, even though they (initially at least) emphasized different strategies. Also, did you watch Takada vs Rickson? Takada was an average grappler, like mid-level catch wrestling compared to his peers, but even so, was still a vastly superior kickboxer to Rickson, and he couldn't do anything to stop Rickson's grappling attack.

>"Oh no that shit was fixed" you say
>First of all, who gives a fuck.
People who actually watched Pride and knew that it wasn't actually fixed?

>If Shooto had picked up in America instead of BJJ, things would be a lot more interesting. That is a fact.
Considering Shooto was/is serious about their implemented ranking system, and UFC's ranking system consists of Dana saying "this guy's popular therefore he's number one contender" because it's more entertaining, I think that potentially shit would have been more boring especially by this point, at least in regards to match-making. Pride was very entertaining, but Shooto is not Pride, it's the polar opposite of Pride's entertainment centric MMA, and very serious-serious.

I dunno man. What's the point of all this really.

That said, I think things would have been very different historically if the Gracie family had set out and taken up NJPW dojo's challenge instead of expecting people to come to them or challenging weaker dojo; guys like Yamazaki would have kicked the shit out of any of the Gracies before they could have taken them down, and Tiger Mask and his students and peers were badasses in their own right. But ultimately I think BJJ would probably have won out any kind of grappling
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)08:04 UTC+1 No.417196 Report

>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)08:08 UTC+1 No.417198 Report

>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)08:12 UTC+1 No.417199 Report

>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)08:15 UTC+1 No.417200 Report

>>417166
>chan sung jung
>japanese
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)08:16 UTC+1 No.417201 Report

>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)08:17 UTC+1 No.417202 Report

>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)08:18 UTC+1 No.417204 Report

>>417125
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlldQvnzEzM

Ouch.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)08:20 UTC+1 No.417206 Report

>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)08:22 UTC+1 No.417207 Report

>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)08:23 UTC+1 No.417208 Report

>>
PuroHook 05/27/14(Tue)08:26 UTC+1 No.417209 Report

>>417145
>MMA and shooto are still very popular there, but many of the fighters find little to no success overseas.
There's a reason and the reason is that their international travel destroys their condition. Even if they're equally as skilled as the American fighters at the same weight, the American fighters have to travel not very far at all, compared to the Japanese fighters. So you have an American guy who flys ten hours for his fight, and the Japanese guy who flys over 24 hours to get to the same building. That maybe doesn't sound like much, but it's a fucking huge difference in condition physically and mentally come game day. This is also true of fighters competing out of Australasia and Europe, which is why pretty much everyone who isn't North American is so poorly represented in North American MMA.

>They were known for being very entertaining. As much as I love Kazushi Sakuraba, if you take a glance at his record, it seems mediocre, aside from the Gracie fights (Gracies are overrated as fighters too)
>The reason he's so remembered today was because of his showmanship and creativity.
Well clearly you haven't watched his fights, because he was frequently matched up in superfights against guys who significantly outweighed him, and sometimes he put in dominant performances against them, sometimes it was too significant of a challenge at that high of a level for him to overcome, but make no bones about it, he was not mediocre; he was arguably the best fighter in the world at his weight class for a noteworthy period of time.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)09:34 UTC+1 No.417234 Report

>>417182
Exactly what I was going to post. OP's idea of entertainment is two guys throwing eachother around and doing things that look pretty while hurting eachother. My idea of entertainment is seeing two high level fighters trying to out-fight eachother, no matter how they do it. I honestly don't even understand why anybody over 12 would prefer the former. Can anyone explain for me?
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)09:42 UTC+1 No.417244 Report

>>417234
So Minowaman isn't entertaining to you?
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)09:45 UTC+1 No.417247 Report

>>417244
Minowa is ridiculous.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)09:48 UTC+1 No.417250 Report

>>417244
I've never seen him fight.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)09:52 UTC+1 No.417253 Report

>>417247
I'm not dissing Minowa, but it seems like him, Genki Sudo and other jap fighters are more concerned about doing ridiculous shit in the ring then actually beating the shit out of their opponents.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)09:53 UTC+1 No.417255 Report

>>417250
Look up Ikuhisa Minowa highlights on Youtube, or just look up one of his fights. Tell me if he seems entertaining to you.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)09:54 UTC+1 No.417257 Report

>>417255
he looks like a pro wrestler
his record is really bad it seems.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)09:59 UTC+1 No.417260 Report

>>417257
He's also an MMA fighter. His record isn't the best. But checkout a highlight vid or something. He has more wins than losses, and I find him entertaining. He tries shit like dropkicks and "the people's elbow" in fights.
>>
Anonymous 05/27/14(Tue)10:45 UTC+1 No.417290 Report

>>417260
we understand hes entertaining to you, but we'd rather watch high level fighters in a "boring" match than a.mid level fighter trying to be relevant
All the content on this website comes from 4chan.org. All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster. 4chanArchive is not affiliated with 4chan.