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File: Garotte.jpg-(73 KB, 400x309)
how hard is it to strangle...
Anonymous 07/15/14(Tue)20:50 UTC+1 No.458998 Report

how hard is it to strangle someone using a rope?
is it possible to strangle someone significantly stronger than you?
and how do you defend if you are being strangled?

sometimes i just wonder how i would react if someone tried to kill me with a rope or something.
>>
Anonymous 07/15/14(Tue)22:14 UTC+1 No.459055 Report

>>458998

if you maintain posture, easy

yes

not be a dumbass and walk in areas where someone can get behind you

the only thing i could recommend is to try to get space between the arteries/trachea and rope, sink weight and try to engage is some sort of ground fighting

attempting to grapple while standing is possible but you already gave them your back...standing...with a rope around your neck

the image you posted isn't a rope though
>>
Anonymous 07/16/14(Wed)00:17 UTC+1 No.459178 Report

My two cents in regards to defending oneself from garroting/strangulation with rope:

0-Maintain awareness of your surroundings.
1-Tuck your chin and place one of your hands so as to prevent the rope/wire from wrapping around your neck.
2-Maintaining your hand in place, do a half-squat and lean forward, making the person either bend over you or step to the side (and in doing so release pressure).
3-With the person bent over you, extend your legs and use your hips to do a sort of judo throw over your shoulder.
4-If successful, leave area and preferably stop frequenting spy novels.
>>
Anonymous 07/16/14(Wed)00:36 UTC+1 No.459196 Report

>>459178
Krav larper pls go
>>
Anonymous 07/16/14(Wed)01:02 UTC+1 No.459213 Report

>>458998
I write up and find resources to share on shime-waza/choking techniques. But there area a slew of gi chokes and variants that can make choking out an opponent pretty easy with a rope/lanyard/their own shirt. So that answers that question.

Is it possible to choke out someone way stronger then you? Oh yes, remember the whole rule of thumb of posistion then submission. Please note that i said rule of thumb. And how i am being mindful of choke out compared to using strangulation. I'll expand on that here in a bit about why I make that difference.


And how to defend from being choke out? That's another can of worms that will take me awhile to type up. But the 2 most blunt answers are; don't get caught in a shitty posistion to be choked from (you'll hear this crude/rude response from a lot of grapplers but its true, and it equates to, LEARN to grapple better). Second basic concept will be learning to how to hand fight/grip fight (what we call kumi kata in judo)

I am going to go to judo right now, so i'll be back in about 3-4 hours ish to dump what info and insight and what nots I have on the subject.
>>
Anonymous 07/16/14(Wed)01:07 UTC+1 No.459216 Report

>>459213
Rolling okuri eri jime is best
>>
Anonymous 07/17/14(Thu)08:27 UTC+1 No.459976 Report

>>459216
One of my bread and butter subs from the scramble.
>>
Anonymous 07/17/14(Thu)08:30 UTC+1 No.459977 Report

Ok, so for purposes of what i am talking about I am going to make a big difference between strangling someone and choking someone out.

For me, when I hear strangle I hear of air chokes, which attacks the airway, like the rape choke/front choke.


A chokehold like the rear naked (RNC)/hadake jime), kata gatame/arm triangle are blood chokes that block off the major arteries of the neck and prevents blood flow into the brain.

I am coming from a judo background, and I will tell you straight up, strangling is garbage technique (well zero technique), it takes way longer to disable someone with an airchoke then a blood choke.

For an air choke to truly work, you have to be insanely strong (or your opponent insanely small and weak compared to you but what's the point of training or learning technique on beating someone weaker then you/you can already beat?). So besides lots of strength you need A LOT of time before they black out/knock out.


Now, all the shime waza taught in judo and BJJ all of them are variants of blood chokes (and there are further variants that do a double wammy of being a blood/air, but that's for later).

OP you asked how hard is it to strangle (air choke) a person, well the motion is easy. Its going to hurt the guy. But is it going to knock him out easily? probably not.

Now if you got that same rope and used the principles and technique of a blood choke, you are going to knock out the guy way faster(instantly if you develop the technique to it).


This answers your second question. Someone stronger then you, can easily be choked out , strangling someone stronger then you, well shit you just lost one advantage of having an air choke working and that's the strength, and well if they're stronger then you and it takes a real long time, well that seems plenty of time for them to muscle out of your move. Again this leads us to the advantage of learning proper shime waza/choking.
>>
Anonymous 07/17/14(Thu)10:39 UTC+1 No.460032 Report

>>459977
Op here.

I understand the difference between air/blood choke but how can you possibly target anything using a rope? Don't you hit both the airway and arteries anyways?
>>
Anonymous 07/17/14(Thu)11:05 UTC+1 No.460038 Report

>>459977
Garottes are a blood choke though. It's the exact same principal as any gi choke.
>>
Anonymous 07/17/14(Thu)11:06 UTC+1 No.460039 Report

>>460032
It honestly depends on how you grip and lace the rope, which then evolves and creates a variant technique.


Now, if you just grabbed the rope with both hands of yours, and just jammed it into the guys throat, you're not going to get the arteries, and just create an airchoke. If you can recreate a gi choke variant with your lacing and grip then you can get a blood choke (maybe a double wammy, if you are able to pull off certain variants)

Now, I am thinking that you are maybe thinking what about thickness of the rope? Well there is no catch all/silver bullet technique. But the thickness of the rope would then make me as the choker modify my gripping/lacing compared to a thinner rope, would it be easier to catch bot the air and blood choke? hmmmm yes and no, the other factor to come in would then be the thickness of my opponents neck.


Now you're probably going to have me stop beating around the bushes and ask for what exact chokes could you look up so you can start garotting buddies left and right, so i say this with some trepidation cause i know lots of guys who try to muscle in choke holds and the scary part of that isn't like you know killing the guy. Its fucking up a partner/friend's neck by muscling in a neck crank rather then cleanly getting the blood choke.

So its common sense. Anyway now that I made a big stink about that and blood choke/air choke we can focus more on the technique and the principle behind them right?


The baseball choke is a variant of a judo choke (you can view it as an inverted/upside down oku eri jime) Its a big time favorite currently in competition BJJ One of the biggest proponents Magid Hage (really recommend his DVD where he spends a good hour just talking about this move alone and at least a dozen variants on it he also gives props to the judo coaches that showed him this move)
>>
Anonymous 07/17/14(Thu)11:13 UTC+1 No.460041 Report

>>460039
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T3JAAY4qCw

So look at this, this is from the Gracie Brothers 16 BJJ Chokes for the street, gi chokes that have been modified to use the gripping of gi but onto street clothes

Now there is crossover between grip strength drilling and choke drilling which involves a rope, you get your belt or gi or jump rope, and on your own you shadow drill/uchokomi the motions of lacing and gripping the choke. This helps develop the muscle memory so you're not fumbling as much, and hence develops more speed and power into the choke hold, which then helps translates into choking out guys faster.


I want you to look at these two youtubes, they discuss how to use the baseball choke on a t-shirt and pollo. Now the basic principle of gripping and lacing is the same.

We then could use the same principle then for a rope

http://youtu.be/_Uhh3M91eAY

http://youtu.be/wlOg7AJBfbM

Look at how the grip and lace the laynard (which in itself is just a rope right?) completely different from just going up to the guy and tugging, which just becomes an air choke.
>>
Anonymous 07/17/14(Thu)11:18 UTC+1 No.460043 Report

>>460038
I agree and disagree with you. I'll agree with you that a garrote (the tool/rope/device) can be used as a blood choke if you know the technique and even shares the same principle with some gi choke variants. I mean if you look at military instruction manuals they show you the proper way to grip and lace the thing. On the flip side some miltiary manuals won't show you the proper technique.

What I don't agree with is, that the device itself will instantly guarantee you a blood choke. It won't if you don't know the proper technique and way to use it.
>>
Anonymous 07/17/14(Thu)11:37 UTC+1 No.460051 Report

>>460043
Not super relevant to the topic at hand but there're some fucking cool chokes in silat using a sarong/scarf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5Jln9Mejx0#t=253
>>
Anonymous 07/17/14(Thu)13:20 UTC+1 No.460089 Report

>>460051
This seems a lot like one of those things that work really well on opponents who don't fight back.
>>
Anonymous 07/17/14(Thu)15:22 UTC+1 No.460131 Report

>>460051
i'll use these during the next larp meet thanks man

- big mike
>>
Anonymous 07/18/14(Fri)06:41 UTC+1 No.460672 Report

Doesn't aikido have moves using these moves too?
>>
Anonymous 07/18/14(Fri)06:48 UTC+1 No.460673 Report

>>458998
>sometimes i just wonder how i would react if someone tried to kill me with a rope or something.
You're either from USA or some developing country without laws. I suggest moving 1st.
>>
Anonymous 07/18/14(Fri)07:00 UTC+1 No.460676 Report

>>460673
>implying you're not 3x more likely to be victimized in the UK than the US
>>
Anonymous 07/18/14(Fri)07:11 UTC+1 No.460678 Report

>>459213
He looks so sad choking the other guy.
>>
Anonymous 07/18/14(Fri)07:14 UTC+1 No.460680 Report

>>460131
Vintage. I like it
>>
Anonymous 07/19/14(Sat)09:42 UTC+1 No.461547 Report

Well its been on a the news but a cop killed a 350lb man with a rear naked choke. So i guess its possible that you can strangle someone significantly stronger and bigger then you.

Probably didn't help he got slammed and swarmed by 3 other cops.

So I guess grappling with choke holds and slams and having the numbers advantage is the real deadly.

4chan thinks the video is spam but its on live(leak)
>>
Anonymous 07/19/14(Sat)13:17 UTC+1 No.461583 Report

>>461547
No shit a weaker guy can choke someone heavier. Choking is the most simple thing anyone can do to kill a person.
>>
Anonymous 07/19/14(Sat)19:52 UTC+1 No.461735 Report

>>461583
where as learning to find your chi and being able to dim mak is the hardest but most satisfying.

Hard work and perseverance is what real budo is. Something that is lacking in a lot of sport styles. Which gives you instant gratification.
>>
Anonymous 07/20/14(Sun)06:52 UTC+1 No.462257 Report

bump
>>
Anonymous 07/20/14(Sun)06:54 UTC+1 No.462262 Report

>>461547
The dude died because he was asthmatic, not because of the chokehold you mongoloid.
>>
Anonymous 07/20/14(Sun)06:58 UTC+1 No.462269 Report

>>459178
>do a judo throw with the wire still around your neck
And decapitate yourself in one smooth movement.
>>
Anonymous 07/20/14(Sun)07:00 UTC+1 No.462271 Report

>>462269
how does that cut through bone and muscle?
>>
Anonymous 07/20/14(Sun)07:01 UTC+1 No.462272 Report

So what if you're attacked with a wire garrote? Is there any way to defend against that or are you basically dead once it tightens?

I made a thread about this a few minutes ago, didn't check the catalog.
>>
Anonymous 07/20/14(Sun)07:06 UTC+1 No.462282 Report

>>462271
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F52h3Pjsj34

A wire garrote is made to cut through muscle. With enough leverage, speed and power it can find its way between vertebrae.
>>
Anonymous 07/20/14(Sun)07:07 UTC+1 No.462286 Report

>>462282
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F52h3Pjsj34
that's clay
show me something on at least a fucking pig or something consisting of human flesh.
>>
Anonymous 07/20/14(Sun)07:14 UTC+1 No.462295 Report

>>462286
lmfao. You even seen pictures of people who have been strangled with fishing line or got clotheslined by wire? It cuts through flesh just fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq8fgEZIH-g
Excuse the deadliest warrior shit and neckbeard narrating. Doesn't look like they had a spine, but it cut though just fine.
>>
Anonymous 07/20/14(Sun)07:15 UTC+1 No.462299 Report

>>462295
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq8fgEZIH-g
post pictures but i sure can't find any where they are cutting through skin and bone.
>>
Anonymous 07/20/14(Sun)07:20 UTC+1 No.462306 Report

>>462299
You're such a retard. A wire almost as thin as a knife's edge can cut, especially when you LARP throw them over your shoulder like in your ninja movies with it around your neck. They are made for cutting flesh, otherwise you would use chord of some kind. It kills faster by making the person bleed out
>>
TKDbravo 07/20/14(Sun)07:24 UTC+1 No.462308 Report

>>458998
Assuming it doesn't cut, you have two seconds from the time blood is cut off

Pull out a handgun and shoot behind you quickly enough, and maybe someone can come find you and save you

however, as this is talking about a rope and not rope jitsu, you're better off on /k/
>>
Anonymous 07/20/14(Sun)15:10 UTC+1 No.462563 Report

>>462272
you're dead pretty much
you'll instinctively grap for the wire but if the guy bulls tight and pulls back hard you're dead before you hit the floor
>>
Anonymous 07/20/14(Sun)18:40 UTC+1 No.462644 Report

>>462563
Say if I were to escape could they still use it as a weapon from the front? I apologize, I don't know anything about martial arts.
>>
Anonymous 07/20/14(Sun)21:46 UTC+1 No.462750 Report

>>462299
What kind of fucking faggot spends half a video telling you about what you're about to see?
>>
Anonymous 07/20/14(Sun)23:28 UTC+1 No.462820 Report

>>462750
Some NEET who plays D&D and watches/takes Deadliest Warrior seriously. It was the only demonstration I could find.
>>
Anonymous 07/20/14(Sun)23:52 UTC+1 No.462840 Report

>>462750
People who are bad at story telling and presentation.

http://youtu.be/sFBhR4QcBtE
>>
Anonymous 07/21/14(Mon)07:07 UTC+1 No.464501 Report

>>462644
I think a garotte isn't a practical weapon from the front, as you can never reach the neck and if you could it would be hard to pull tight whilst the guy can just hit you everywhere.

Really only works from the back
>>
Anonymous 07/21/14(Mon)07:17 UTC+1 No.464504 Report

>>462644
learn how not to get your back taken
and learn to scramble
>>
Anonymous 07/21/14(Mon)07:45 UTC+1 No.464518 Report

>>464501
Agreed. The garotte is a purely offensive nigger weapon.
>>
Anonymous 07/21/14(Mon)08:07 UTC+1 No.464528 Report

>>464501
Couldn't you let go of one of the handles and swing it like a chain or block with the length? And what stops them from wrapping your arm?
>>
Anonymous 07/22/14(Tue)10:57 UTC+1 No.466449 Report

>>464528
What do you mean
>>
Anonymous 07/22/14(Tue)11:43 UTC+1 No.466460 Report

I honestly don't see why you would prefer a rope above a rear naked choke (blood choke).
You can't defend against it either way if you're being jumped and the guy knows the ropes.
>>
Anonymous 07/22/14(Tue)19:45 UTC+1 No.466629 Report

>>466449
Well if they can wrap your neck, cant they do the same to your wrist?
>>
Anonymous 07/22/14(Tue)22:50 UTC+1 No.466785 Report

>>466629
well yes but you don't die from that
>>
Anonymous 07/22/14(Tue)23:40 UTC+1 No.466820 Report

>>466460
Its a lot easier to pry the arms off or get a little breathing room from a rear naked choke than it is a thin cord
>>
Anonymous 07/22/14(Tue)23:55 UTC+1 No.466828 Report

>>466820
And I don't have to get as close to you. If I have you in a rear naked there is a chance I'm on your back and you're controlling my weight. Then maybe you could slam me or something
>>
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)00:04 UTC+1 No.466836 Report

>>466828
Also no risk of that fucker sinking his teeth into your arm as you scramble to secure the choke
>>
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)00:38 UTC+1 No.466866 Report

>>466836
If they have opportunity to bite you then you fucked up the choke because you tried for it when their chin was down.
>>
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)00:45 UTC+1 No.466873 Report

>>466866
Or you tried it in a less than ideal situation, such as real life
>>
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)00:47 UTC+1 No.466875 Report

>>466873
No, you fucked up the choke. In which case you're far better using the position to throw (in conjunction with sweeping a foot) or shifting to a full or half nelson.
>>
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)00:48 UTC+1 No.466876 Report

>>466875
No you're better off stabbing him
>>
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)02:20 UTC+1 No.466934 Report

>>459976
Im looking at the first 3 images, I understand why that would choke someone but you have to apply pressure, so what is to stop the person on the bottom from hammering your head while you push on them?
>>
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)02:38 UTC+1 No.466944 Report

>>466934
A properly applied choke works fast
>>
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)03:11 UTC+1 No.466959 Report

>>466934
A blood choke renders the target unconscious in around 8 seconds. Vision fails around 5.
>>
PuroHook 07/23/14(Wed)04:00 UTC+1 No.467010 Report

>>459977
>For me, when I hear strangle I hear of air chokes, which attacks the airway, like the rape choke/front choke.
Strangle is the other one. A "choke" affects the airway and is manual suffocation, a "strangle" restricts the blood flow through the carotid.

>>459977
>Now, all the shime waza taught in judo and BJJ all of them are variants of blood chokes
Box, guillotine, forearm, are a few varieties which are/were intended to be "air" chokes, even if they do have the potential to be "blood" chokes. There's not a huge bunch but they're in there. It doesn't take much strength to close someone's airway with those techniques, but I think people underestimate how long manual suffocation takes, so you'd need a lot of stamina in your squeeze unless you were using your bodyweight.

I don't see how you could target the carotid or trachea specifically with a garrote though, but I guess it doesn't matter
>>
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)20:18 UTC+1 No.467384 Report

>>466876
No you're better off with a pipebomb
>>
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)20:22 UTC+1 No.467386 Report

>>467384
>not having a barbed spike on the end cap so you can do both
>>
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)20:24 UTC+1 No.467388 Report

>>467386
>not having lubed silicone endcaps so it can do you both
>>
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)20:30 UTC+1 No.467393 Report

>>467388
do you have actual recipes?
>>
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)20:47 UTC+1 No.467407 Report

>>467393
If you really wanted such a thing, I'd just cut up some dildos for the cause.
>>
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)20:51 UTC+1 No.467409 Report

>>467393
Hey its the FBI lol
>>
Anonymous 07/24/14(Thu)07:27 UTC+1 No.467698 Report

>>467393
>>>/k/>>467393
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