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/k/ - Weapons

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File: AH-56 camo.jpg-(124 KB, 1200x871)
Why are you not allowed to...
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)22:58 UTC+1 No.21602814 Report

Why are you not allowed to shoot enemy pilots who have bailed out of their aircraft, but you can shoot enemy tank crewmen who have bailed out of their tank?
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)22:59 UTC+1 No.21602819 Report

Because a man in a parachute can't fight back.
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:04 UTC+1 No.21602872 Report

>>21602814
Because fighter pilots are officers and knights of the sky, while tank crewman are lowly wrench-turners and probably enlisted.
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:10 UTC+1 No.21602956 Report

>>21602872

>Officers

Boom, you got it
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:16 UTC+1 No.21603067 Report
File: (211).jpg-(125x93)
>>21602814https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8LVlYJ5eJUpic...
>>21602814
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8LVlYJ5eJU
pic not related ..sorta
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:22 UTC+1 No.21603137 Report

Because the Chair Force will throw a sissy fit.
/thread
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:27 UTC+1 No.21603194 Report

>>21602872
>Because fighter pilots are officers and knights of the sky, while tank crewman are lowly wrench-turners and probably enlisted.
nailed it on the head

also tankers are like snipers. you don't let them live, you eliminate them. With extreme prejudice
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:30 UTC+1 No.21603239 Report

>>21602956

Aren't there sometimes officers in tank crews?
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:35 UTC+1 No.21603295 Report

>>21603137
Fuck yeah we will dying is for the grunts.
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:37 UTC+1 No.21603316 Report

Because they're officers, and you capture officers for questioning, torture, and trade value.
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:38 UTC+1 No.21603323 Report

>>21602814
A bailedout pilot have nowhereto run or hide. He just hangs there in his chute
Tank crews on the other hand have a lot more way of escaping
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:40 UTC+1 No.21603349 Report

>>21603323
>>21602819

You guys realize that pilots eventually LAND when they bail, yeah?

Even then, you're still not allowed to shoot them, even if they're evading capture.
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:42 UTC+1 No.21603369 Report

>>21603239
I could be mistaken, but I think that's uncommon. IIRC officers in armoured units don't usually actually man the tanks
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:43 UTC+1 No.21603384 Report

>>21603067
>With eight hundred rounds a minute you can do a lot of damage with fifty caliber shells from six guns.

I like this guy.
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:46 UTC+1 No.21603409 Report

>>21603349
when a pilot lands, he will be given a chance to surrender. If he doesn't he may be killed just like a normal enemy
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:47 UTC+1 No.21603417 Report

You're not allowed to shoot at people parachuting from any aircraft in descent, the exception is armed paratroopers. You have to wait until they're on the ground and wait until they surrender or show signs or display aggressive combat behavior.

The difference between this and tankers, are that parachuting pilots from down aircraft are often fucked regardless, they are often unarmed and away from their allies. Plus, you can gain a lot more intelligence from them than you can with tankers.

Tankers on the other hand roll with other ground forces, often enough infantry is with them or other vehicles. Once fleeing tankers get out chances are their buddies aren't far away that they can regroup with them. Plus when fleeing a tank most tankers are armed with pistols and and at least one or all crewman are given carbines.
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:47 UTC+1 No.21603421 Report

>>21603369
How the fuck can you command a tank platoon without being in one.
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:48 UTC+1 No.21603432 Report

>>21603349
>wait for them to land
>capture them
>profit!!
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:49 UTC+1 No.21603448 Report

>>21602872

This.

Officers and pilots are like knights. They are for capturing and ransoming. Tankers, NCOs, and other infantrymen? Peasants and common lowborn filth.
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:51 UTC+1 No.21603457 Report

>>21602814
>>21603349

A pilot (officer) is the modern-day equivalent of a medieval knight.

Better education, better training, more expensive equipment, higher socio-economic background... they're basically nobility.

And what do you do with nobles? You capture them for ransom.

People on the ground, on the other hand are pretty much peasants that nobody gives a fuck about. Bomb them, shoot them, run them over. Nobody gives a fuck because they're peasant men-at-arms.
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:55 UTC+1 No.21603508 Report

>>21602872
>>21603194
>>21603448
Platoon Leaders are in tanks too you fucking retards.
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:57 UTC+1 No.21603532 Report

>>21603421
On a tank platoon level, the platoon commander usually is in one of the tanks out of the 4 and commands it and the platoon. On any field unit higher usually the commanding officer has their own non-tank HQ vehicle, often just an HUMVEE which they often just stay in the back and coordinate platoons and teams around.
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:57 UTC+1 No.21603533 Report

>>21602814
cuz it cost more to train the former.....
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:58 UTC+1 No.21603542 Report

>>21603421
radios. This is like the one time i wish LMJ was still around
>>
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:59 UTC+1 No.21603553 Report

Because tankers deserve it, for being stupid tankers.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:03 UTC+1 No.21603608 Report

Because airforces somehow managed to convince militaries around the world not to kill them if they land out of a misplaced sense of honour and "fair ply".

And yet these are the same people that drop thousands of pounds of bombs at ranges where most people on the ground have no realistic chance of fighting back or even detecting.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:04 UTC+1 No.21603620 Report

>>21603542
I think that's implied because the platoon leader cannot be in four tanks at once. But thanks for coming.

At the platoon level the commander needs to be in the thick of it, so he's not going to be sitting in a humvee beside his tanks.

At company level and above it makes more sense for the commander to be further back like >>21603532 says.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:07 UTC+1 No.21603659 Report

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d4Z0FtRI7A

Music video related /k/. It's about honor.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:09 UTC+1 No.21603674 Report
File: TankPlatoon_toe.jpg-(125x76)
>>21603542
>>21603542
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:09 UTC+1 No.21603678 Report

Pilots are valuable.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:11 UTC+1 No.21603699 Report

What are you guys talking about when you say "not allowed to"? Is that just American doctrine? I understand the whole increased value of pilots but what happens if some haji pops a pilot at 300 ft? The USAF goes ballistic? It doesn't make sense that we would use more force responding to a pilots death than having 4 tankers getting mowed down as they flee their vehicle. Like what situation exists where we would be ok with tankers dying but as soon as a pilot gets shot we respond with extreme aggression?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:13 UTC+1 No.21603727 Report

>>21603699

Geneva Convention forbids the killing of downed pilots.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:13 UTC+1 No.21603736 Report

>>21603699
Geneva Convention.

If a pilot gets shot down he's usually on his own and unarmed or with a pistol.

If a tank crew abandons their vehicle, they have M4s and can still fight back, there are also other tanks and forces around too.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:17 UTC+1 No.21603783 Report
File: photo.jpg-(125x125)
>>21603457>A pilot...
>>21603457
>A pilot (officer) is the modern-day equivalent of a medieval knight.

Do you know there are three kinds of aces?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:18 UTC+1 No.21603795 Report

Ain't no Swiss circlejerk gonna tell me who I can and can't shoot. Second Amendment, motherfucker!
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:21 UTC+1 No.21603836 Report
File: 1393453861441.jpg-(125x116)
>Reading a book about WW1...
>Reading a book about WW1 aviation and the evolution of it from the start of the war to the end
>Some guy shot a german pilot in the head with his enfield from his plane

This was before they started to mount machine guns and such on them and only brought up their sidearms and rifles
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:26 UTC+1 No.21603882 Report

What are you talking about?
Fucking GLA quad cannons always tear apart my veteran F-22 pilots.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:27 UTC+1 No.21603894 Report

>>21603882
What do you expect from dirty terrorist scum?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:28 UTC+1 No.21603902 Report

>>21602956
>>21603239
>>21603369
>>21603421
>>21603532

Maybe in shitty merican armoured units, but countries with decent command structure put the officers in tanks too

Even the CO has his own designated tank with flags and such, shit's cash
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:31 UTC+1 No.21603941 Report

>>21603736
This. Tank crews are on spidered to be close enough to main force troops that they are not vulnerable and thus remain a threat. Downed pilots are considered vulnerable. Also, tank crews may or may not retain equipment enabling them to fight offensively for foot, pilots only retain equipment for survival or defense. The convention is based on the potential threat the individual poses to your troops. You are only allowed to engage targets that are hostile threats capable of inflicting damage, essentially. Paratroopers while airborne are also considered off limits according to the convention.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:36 UTC+1 No.21603990 Report

>>21602814
its funny because pilots are the ones that kill the most people
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:37 UTC+1 No.21604002 Report

>>21603941
also the odds of an officer being in a tank are much lower than an officer being a pilot. 1/16 vs 1/1
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:38 UTC+1 No.21604010 Report

>>21602872
You're not supposed to shoot people in liferafts after you sink their ship, either. I don't think that means seaman snuffy is considered part of the knightly class.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:38 UTC+1 No.21604016 Report

>>21603836
That's some real shit right there. Just think if that's how we did war. Aristocrats in their planes taking pot shots at each other. The world would be a beautiful place.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:39 UTC+1 No.21604024 Report

>>21603882
>I'll puncture the next thing that moves
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:40 UTC+1 No.21604034 Report

>>21604010
>shooting people while they are drowning
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:41 UTC+1 No.21604053 Report

>>21603836
And they carried bombs. In their hands.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:42 UTC+1 No.21604055 Report

>>21604034
Your navy needs to upgrade its liferafts, apparently.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:42 UTC+1 No.21604056 Report

>>21603836
Wasn't this one of the more popular theories as to who finally shot the red baron down?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:42 UTC+1 No.21604057 Report

>>21604016
Yeah, the early plane days of WW1 sound insane so far. People throwing bricks at each other and shit. I've not finished the book yet but I'm at the point where they start talking about mounting machine guns on planes and Garros and Fokker's contributions to that
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:43 UTC+1 No.21604072 Report

>>21604055
>life vest will ensure people in the open ocean next to a sinking ship will survive

They are better than nothing, but if you are out in the open water you are fucked
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:45 UTC+1 No.21604082 Report

Because we don't pull a snackbar and send one tank out alone by itself at the enemy. When pretty much any western tank crew bails, they're going to be surrounded by friendlies.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:45 UTC+1 No.21604086 Report

>>21604010
sharks don't follow the gevena convention you christian theist asshole
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:46 UTC+1 No.21604095 Report
File: plot.jpg-(119x125)
>>21604072I said...
>>21604072
I said "life raft".
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:46 UTC+1 No.21604101 Report

>>21604056
He got shot down by an AA gun in France, I think they IDed the crew or the gun that did it. Also he had been suffering from brain damage from an injury before it which may have contributed to him flying too low in France
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:47 UTC+1 No.21604113 Report

>>21604095
Oh, either way being in a life raft in open water isn't a good thing either because you will die of exposure if you arent rescued
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:53 UTC+1 No.21604161 Report
File: 6978937667_e059fffa4e_z.jpg-(125x83)
>>21603836Here's...
>>21603836
Here's the full passage cut down with some words that aren't needed because I'm lazy

"Armed with an enfield rifle and flying a pusher driven DH-2, Lieutenant Strange ran into a couple of german's in an aviatek scout. The germans dove on Strange while the observer shot at Strange with his own rifle. Strange easily avoided the Germans and took to shooting back at them with his own Enfield. On the third or fourth try Strange drilled the German pilot in the forehead"

It says this was the first authenticated air to air kill in the war. This book was written in the 1960's so maybe things have been discovered by now but it's a nice book it seems so far for learning about WW1 aviation
>>
TooSmallFor.45ACP 06/17/14(Tue)00:54 UTC+1 No.21604168 Report
File: l.jpg-(125x93)
>>21603783I miss that...
>>21603783
I miss that game. Thatwas the best one in the series.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:55 UTC+1 No.21604180 Report

They aren't lawful combatants
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:55 UTC+1 No.21604181 Report

>>21602956
>>21602872
in the olden days officers where not aloud to be shot or killed in war

sad no
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:57 UTC+1 No.21604198 Report

>>21602872
why should a pilot who spends all his time in the sky removed from the actual combat command more respect than someone roughing it out on the ground? Serious question.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:57 UTC+1 No.21604202 Report

>>21604113
You still can't shoot them, and it's not because they're all lords.

(also, you'd be surprised at how long people can survive in an open raft with a bit of skill. But beyond that, you can be assured that rescue operations will be undertaken. Frequently they are carried out by the enemy. For example, commerce raiders would pick up the crews of the ships they sunk)
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:58 UTC+1 No.21604207 Report

To be fair, if your tank gets fucked and you bail out, you are now more or less a combatant on the ground. In most cases, if you're joe-blow mechanic or driver or whatever, you're just gonna take cover and try not to get shot anyway. Generally, you can surrender if you have no weapons or equipment and are isolated or whatever, and at that point you'd be treated like any other surrendering combatant.

A pilot parachuting is basically given a pass while they're dropping because most of the time that person hasn't had a chance to display whether they are surrendering or not yet; usually because they're worried about not hitting the ground at high speed or being impaled on a tree or something while they fall.

Once they land they're not really a combatant yet either because he's a guy in a flight suit with maybe a handgun and isn't part of any formal assault operation at that point. Unless the pilots are given machine-guns and given express missions to go fuck shit up if they bail... at such point they'd be combatants on touchdown, and maybe even in the air if they could be considered a paratrooper at that point.

But people are also right there's a certain sense of 'chivalry' some nations put on pilots, and in most cases discrepancy of power means that even a group that doesn't give a fuck about the rules will have no problem just capturing the pilot and using them as a pawn.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:59 UTC+1 No.21604209 Report

>>21603836
i heared some pilots refused to drop bombs (some where just darts) cos it seemed unfair

also no one would hit anything so it was just good fun with the rifles and guns
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:00 UTC+1 No.21604221 Report

>>21603836
i heared some pilots refused to drop bombs (some where just darts) cos it seemed unfair

also no one would hit anything so it was just good fun with the rifles and guns

and the comanders didn't give the pilots parachutes cos they thought the pilots would bail out too early and not try to save the plane man hihger ups are insane assholes
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:00 UTC+1 No.21604223 Report

>>21604198
When the .gov gives one person control of a multimillion dollar piece of equipment that is pretty easy to destroy on accident, it considers them an investment, and treats them differently that PFC Joe Bootlicker.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:00 UTC+1 No.21604232 Report

>>21604202
Why would you shoot them then if you could take them captive?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:01 UTC+1 No.21604239 Report

People talking about officers being like nobles, honor, ransom, etc, are kind of talking out their ass.

The reason that you can't kill people in parachutes (other than paratroopers) is that they aren't lawful combatants at that time. Even when they hit the ground and start evading they aren't lawful combatants, so you can't just shoot them.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:02 UTC+1 No.21604241 Report

A pilot without a plane is a defeated man. A man that let his transport, his weapon, his steed, his friend be destroyed.

The real reason why you're not supposed to fire on downed pilots is so they have time to kill themselves out of shame.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:03 UTC+1 No.21604251 Report

>>21604239
from the wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_parachutists

ttacking persons parachuting from an aircraft in distress is a war crime under Protocol I in addition to the 1949 Geneva Conventions. However, it is not prohibited under this Protocol to open fire on airborne troops who are descending by parachutes, even if their aircraft is in distress.[1]
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:05 UTC+1 No.21604277 Report

>>21604223
eh, can't argue with that train of logic. What's with the whole officers = knights thing though? And does this only apply to pilot officers? Never heard of this before.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:06 UTC+1 No.21604287 Report

>>21604251
its a bit sick to shoot some one unarmed
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:08 UTC+1 No.21604321 Report

>>21604221
Yeah, but the other thing is that useable parachutes had barely been invented and were very heavy. And these planes could barely carry the pilot at a decent speed, nevermind adding a parachute.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:09 UTC+1 No.21604330 Report

Geneva Convention, Protocol I created in 1977

Article 42 outlaws attacks on pilots and aircrews who are parachuting from an aircraft in distress. Once they landed in territory controlled by an adverse party, they must be given an opportunity to surrender before being attacked unless it is apparent that they are engaging in a hostile act or attempting to escape. Airborne troops who are parachuting from an aircraft, whether in distress or not, are not given the protection afforded by this Article and, therefore, may be attacked during their descent.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:12 UTC+1 No.21604377 Report

>>21604330
Articles 56 and 53 outlaw attacks on dams, dikes, nuclear generating stations, and places of worship

So.... If Iran makes a nuclear reactor to make nuclear weapons we can't destroy it? Neither can Israel?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:13 UTC+1 No.21604389 Report

>>21604239
The question is why are they not lawful combatants? All you're saying is 'it's against the law'. We know that already.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:13 UTC+1 No.21604390 Report

>>21604277
That attitude used to exist but not really anymore
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:14 UTC+1 No.21604409 Report

>>21603902
>Decent command structure
>Not the nation with the largest military force projection on the planet
I'm not a burger backer, but know your roll son. If there's one thing the US knows it's command structure.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:16 UTC+1 No.21604426 Report

>>21604390
Good to know. I'm actually joining the military as an officer but the last thing I would want is an awkward class divide getting in the way of caring for and empathising with my men, fuck that.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:16 UTC+1 No.21604434 Report
File: Jerry.jpg-(124x124)
>>21604377>Israel...
>>21604377
>Israel following the Geneva Convention
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:20 UTC+1 No.21604468 Report

>>21604377
Nuke stations is a very difficult topic. Israel took out a Syrian reactor under construction, and also Iraqs small research reactor back in the 1980s. But there's a pretty big consensus among the countries that matter to leave operational nuke reactors off limits to avoid ecological damage. Apparently nuking a nuke reactor would be even worse, spreading both the daughter products of the initial weapon and the reactor fuel.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:22 UTC+1 No.21604488 Report

>>21604389
Because they are not operating in an offensive capacity. You're not supposed to shoot troops who aren't able to be a threat. Airborne troops are infantry equipped and intent on carrying out offensive actions, but a downed pilot is not.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:28 UTC+1 No.21604553 Report

>>21604389
LAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANT.—The term ‘lawful enemy combatant’ means a person who is—

(A) a member of the regular forces of a State party engaged in hostilities
(B) a member of a militia, volunteer corps, or organized resistance movement belonging to a State party engaged in such hostilities, which are under responsible command, wear a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance, carry their arms openly, and abide by the law of war; or
(C) a member of a regular armed force who professes allegiance to a government engaged in such hostilities

Unlawful combatant: directly engages in armed conflict in violation of the laws of war. An unlawful combatant may be detained or prosecuted under the domestic law of the detaining state for such action; subject of course to international treaties on justice and human rights


Every person in enemy hands must be either a prisoner of war and, as such, be covered by the Third Convention; or a civilian covered by the Fourth Convention. Furthermore, "There is no intermediate status; nobody in enemy hands can be outside the law",[4] because in the opinion of the ICRC, "If civilians directly engage in hostilities, they are considered 'unlawful' or 'unprivileged' combatants or belligerents (the treaties of humanitarian law do not expressly contain these terms). They may be prosecuted under the domestic law of the detaining state for such action"
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:30 UTC+1 No.21604579 Report
File: 1376158001969.jpg-(125x86)
...
>>21604434
>>21604377
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:32 UTC+1 No.21604607 Report
File: 1392927352677.jpg-(125x93)
>>21604086Because a...
>>21604086
Because a single shark is capable of sinking a 25,000 ton destroyer right?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:32 UTC+1 No.21604610 Report

>>21604579
Geez, war is pretty.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:33 UTC+1 No.21604616 Report

>>21604610
>war
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:34 UTC+1 No.21604631 Report

>>21603457
>People on the ground, on the other hand are pretty much peasants that nobody gives a fuck about.

It's funny, because there hasn't been a single US president that was an officer in the air force where as there have been plenty of Presidents who served in the Army.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:36 UTC+1 No.21604660 Report

>>21604631
Air National Guard not good enough for ya, flyboy?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:36 UTC+1 No.21604663 Report

Pilots are also valuable for their intelligence when captured, so it make sense to capture them as they are pretty helpless to fight back once on the ground.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:37 UTC+1 No.21604667 Report
File: small disappointed man.jpg-(125x93)
>>21604610>israel...
>>21604610
>israel dropping white phosphorous on palestinians
>war
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:40 UTC+1 No.21604702 Report

>>21604631
Navy too

JFK, Carter, George H.W come to mind
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:41 UTC+1 No.21604713 Report

>>21604702
Here's a random fact.

Jimmy Carter was the only US president to live in project housing.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:41 UTC+1 No.21604717 Report

>>21604181
But were they quiet to do it?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:41 UTC+1 No.21604721 Report

>>21604631
Lt. George Bush
Texas Air National Guard
Air Force Reserve

he actually flew a fighter jet while in office as president, and S-3B Viking.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:42 UTC+1 No.21604731 Report

>>21604667
Obviously it's war. Israel has to protect themselves from the Palestinian aggression that began in 1947. If they don't keep them on lock down, it will be like 9/11 times 1000.
>>
Erik the Red 06/17/14(Tue)01:44 UTC+1 No.21604752 Report

>>21604713
That's because Lincoln did not have a house.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:45 UTC+1 No.21604754 Report

>>21603990
>not artillery or machine guns
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:45 UTC+1 No.21604764 Report

>>21604287
>pilots
>unarmed

you're fucking retarded
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:46 UTC+1 No.21604781 Report
File: 1396374311451.jpg-(120x124)
>>21604731You're...
>>21604731
You're fucking retarded too.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:52 UTC+1 No.21604845 Report

>>21604781
Please explain.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:55 UTC+1 No.21604886 Report

>>21604409
Not even, if there's one thing the US knows it's outrageous amounts of money.

Their command structure is merely adequate, lacks proper joint capability and lacks efficiency.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:57 UTC+1 No.21604905 Report
File: M777.jpg-(125x93)
>>21603990As a weapon,...
>>21603990
As a weapon, artillery is the most lethal form of land-based armament. It now includes guns, howitzers, mortars, and rockets, primarily designed for indirect fire, and also anti-aircraft guns, surface-to-air, and surface-to-surface missiles. In the Napoleonic wars and WW I and II most fatalities—over 60 per cent on the western front in WW I—were caused by artillery. In the desert in WW II, where the hard rocky landscape enhanced the effect of the shells, the percentage rose to 75 per cent. Not for nothing did Stalin, whose artillery arm had a tradition of excellence, call it ‘the God of War’ in a 1944 speech. Furthermore, it is not a clean way to die. The injuries and mutilation caused by artillery, its capricious effects, its operators unseen, make it a hated and feared instrument of war. Artillery's effects are impossible to simulate in peacetime exercises. Troops can manoeuvre and simulate direct fire, but indirect fire, when explosive power descends, unexpected, unseen until the explosions, paralysing, mutilating, and above all deafening, is impossible to mimic. Artillery therefore tends to be underestimated in peacetime. In war the artillery arm is always reinforced. In WW II a quarter of the British army was in the Royal Artillery.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:57 UTC+1 No.21604906 Report

>>21603067
He seems like a cross between Tywin Lannister and my Doolittle Raider great granddad. I like this guy
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:58 UTC+1 No.21604911 Report

>>21604845
>Obviously it's war.

Now fuck off, that isn't war it's murder.

I'm not even taking sides, but you don't rain down WP on civilian centers, period.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:59 UTC+1 No.21604931 Report

>>21604781
Holy shit is that a deleted scene from Alien(s)?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:59 UTC+1 No.21604935 Report

OP's post is pure shit. it's a timeless fallacy called begging the question.

I can't believe any of you fags even responded to this.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)01:59 UTC+1 No.21604936 Report

>>21603508
yes but not on every tank with a pilot you a guaranteed an officer
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:00 UTC+1 No.21604942 Report

>>21603194
>you eliminate them. With extreme prejudice

Why though?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:01 UTC+1 No.21604965 Report

>>21604905
I would think aircraft would be responsible for the most deaths of noncombatants, because people, other than Israel, tend not to fire artillery into places filled with civilians
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:03 UTC+1 No.21604984 Report

How can so many of you get this question so wrong? This shit has nothing to do with laws or surrendering or whatever.

It's simple - a pilot bailing out over enemy territory is alone and easily captured. A tank crew bailing out is almost always in the midst of a major combat operation and surrounded by plenty of friends who are you shooting at you. The two situations are in no way comparable.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:09 UTC+1 No.21605040 Report

>>21604911
How do you know that's a civilian location?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:09 UTC+1 No.21605042 Report

>>21602814
would you really give a shit about "rules" in the heat of battle?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:10 UTC+1 No.21605056 Report

>>21604965
>>21604965
In at least one case, the Iraq War, aircraft accounted for the most casualties among civilians, because it's the least discriminate weapon most used in urban centers. Stats from Iraq War Body Count or such.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:12 UTC+1 No.21605083 Report

>>21605040
Because Israel is bombing it
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:14 UTC+1 No.21605111 Report

>>21602814
>allowed
Nothing is stopping you.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:14 UTC+1 No.21605113 Report

>>21603067
Wow, that fucker scares me.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:15 UTC+1 No.21605127 Report

>>21605083
Circular logic. Israel only bombs civilians. Israel is bombing, therefore must be civilians.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:18 UTC+1 No.21605165 Report

>>21605083
Hurr.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:20 UTC+1 No.21605185 Report

>>21604936
There were a lot of NCO pilots during the world wars. More out of desperation than anything. But the same rules applied. Even now some helicopter pilots are NCOs/WOs, in Britain at least.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:20 UTC+1 No.21605193 Report

>>21605127
They don't always bomb civis, sometimes they forcibly sterilize them
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:20 UTC+1 No.21605197 Report

>>21604667
Counterbattery fire. You know damn well all those people were standing around the mortar team cheering them on and bringing their babies to watch too.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:20 UTC+1 No.21605198 Report

>>21604579
Stop being anti semitic, Israel only ever uses white phosphorous for illumination!
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:22 UTC+1 No.21605209 Report

>>21605165
>>21605127
They also keep getting "in trouble" for not following the fourth Geneva convention
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:23 UTC+1 No.21605230 Report

>>21605197
Doesn't justify the use of WP, which is only permitted for the creation of smokescreens
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:24 UTC+1 No.21605236 Report

>>21604209
>implying death from above isnt unfair
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:28 UTC+1 No.21605295 Report
File: excalibur7blog[1].jpg-(125x70)
Air to air combat is generally...
Air to air combat is generally regarded as noble combat.

It's just two men and two machines fighting against each other. As others have said, they're regarded as the knights of the sky. It's pretty romantic, really.

It all ties in to the whole "destroy the machine, not the man" mentality that many pilots reinforced among themselves during the golden age of A2A.

Remember the story about that 109 pilot that escorted a damaged B-17 to safety? His CO told him that if he saw any of his men shooting at chutes, he'd shoot them down himself.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:28 UTC+1 No.21605300 Report

>>21602814
Tank crew usually trained in combat. Pilots not so much. But who the fuck follows those rules?
>He's coming right for us!
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:29 UTC+1 No.21605308 Report

>>21604984

So if the Tank is alone, the Laws of War have changed?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:29 UTC+1 No.21605313 Report

>>21605209
Save some of that ass pain for the palestinians. People act like they can do no wrong.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:29 UTC+1 No.21605317 Report

>>21605230
They were obviously using it to obscure the mortar team's view of their tube.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:30 UTC+1 No.21605327 Report

>People consider air to air combat noble and kightly

True air combat is less knightly and more cowardly

IDEALY your enemy should have no idea you're there until you've already put rounds into his tail. If you find yourself in a dog-fight it means either you or he messed up.

It's stabs in the back, not knights jousting each other face to face
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:31 UTC+1 No.21605332 Report

>>21604886
Ok ill give you that if you can name one country that has a chance against the U.S. and the money pit that is their military.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:32 UTC+1 No.21605345 Report

>>21605185
Don't pilots automagically get the promotion. Have you never seen Battlestar?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:33 UTC+1 No.21605355 Report

>>21605313
>shooting civis is ok as long as they are brown and you are occupying their nation

ok
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:33 UTC+1 No.21605359 Report

>>21603448
Oh wow he has a 4 year degree some not even that. Such high birth.
>I've figured out your ruse you low born scum. Inb4 oblivion reference
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:33 UTC+1 No.21605366 Report

>>21605295
>Remember the story about that 109 pilot that escorted a damaged B-17 to safety? His CO told him that if he saw any of his men shooting at chutes, he'd shoot them down himself.
The man who was immortalized in /k/'s battle hymms?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdhVVhxHsrM
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:34 UTC+1 No.21605371 Report

>>21604731
>Palestinian aggression that began in 1947
It's funny, because that's when the UN decided to dump all the Jews who could have just gone home and kicked out the krauts living there, but instead decided to carve out a country in someone else's home because MUH HOLY LAND
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:34 UTC+1 No.21605372 Report

>>21605327
>>People consider air to air combat noble and kightly
It's not noble or knightly today, that's for sure.

But back in the day when it was guns on guns, sure.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:34 UTC+1 No.21605373 Report

>>21605083
Arguments over guys. He got us
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:35 UTC+1 No.21605383 Report

>>21605317
I never looked at it that way.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:36 UTC+1 No.21605398 Report
File: 1401903976477.jpg-(119x125)
>>21605317
>>21605317
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:38 UTC+1 No.21605429 Report

>>21605372

Back in the day when it was guns on guns, the Aces that survived were those that excelled at stalking and stabbing enemies in the back.

>See Erich Hartmann
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:41 UTC+1 No.21605470 Report

>>21605429
Having and exploiting the element of surprise doesn't go against these unspoken codes, bruh. Do you think Hartmann would have taken passes at chutes? Do you think Hartmann was aiming for the man in the cockpit?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:43 UTC+1 No.21605498 Report

>>21605470

>Do you think Hartmann was aiming for the man in the cockpit?
>He thinks anyone besides Marseille could do that

I hope you realize how hard marksmanship from a moving airplane is

Hartmann said many times that he simply aimed to hit, nothing more. If it hit the cockpit then it hit the cockpit.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:44 UTC+1 No.21605516 Report

>>21605498
I hope you realize that when I say that it's just another way of saying that most of the time pilots weren't trying to kill the other pilot.

Again, it's a code of honor in the sky. Chivalry, if you will.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:46 UTC+1 No.21605550 Report

>>21605516

Have you read the book Erich's wife wrote about him?

How about Wiese's book?

No one was so good that they actually could prevent themselves from hitting the enemy's cockpit if they were in the middle of a battle.

Where the fuck are you pulling this bullshit from?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:46 UTC+1 No.21605552 Report

>>21605372
Nah, not even in WWI. The 'chivalry in the clouds' thing was always a bit of a myth. It may have existed in 1914, before aircrew had effective ways to kill each other, but by the end of the war I doubt there was much of that going on excluding some isolated incidents.

I mean at the end of the day you were trying to get the jump on your enemy and pump him full of bullets before he could react. If he wasn't killed instantly he would fall helplessly to the ground, or if he was less lucky the plane would ignite and he would burn to death. Real chivalrous.

If you're interested there's a great novel called Goshawk Squadron about fighter pilots in 1918. It was quite controversial when it came out.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:47 UTC+1 No.21605566 Report

>>21605550
Are you always this dense?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:48 UTC+1 No.21605581 Report

>>21605566

I'd like to know where you've gotten this idea that a majority of fighter pilots claimed they didn't aim for cockpits when they already had enough trouble aiming for the enemy plane itself
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:49 UTC+1 No.21605589 Report

>>21605516
Chivalry is nothing like that. You're so fucking wrong.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:49 UTC+1 No.21605598 Report

>>21604660
Only if you actually show up to it
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:51 UTC+1 No.21605628 Report

>>21604731
>Palestinian aggression that began in 1947
That shit was going on since the early days of Zionism in the 19th century. Jews move in and buy land off the local pasha, then imams whip up their flock into a fury and go on a pogrom because it's a way of securing legitimacy. That's how it started.

>>21605230
>justify
Seems legit to me. WP is an excellent incendiary, you know. And incendiaries are great against personnel and equipment, like, say, a mortar team and their Toyota. It also causes less collateral damage than HE. There's nothing to justify.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:53 UTC+1 No.21605653 Report
File: 1402098427680.jpg-(125x93)
>>21605581
>>21605581
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:55 UTC+1 No.21605677 Report

>>21605653
Other anon. Why did you bother posting? I hope the anon that message was for doesn't respond back like I did, because you're next to fucking worthless.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:55 UTC+1 No.21605681 Report
File: whitephosphorus1[1].jpg-(125x121)
>>21605628>here's...
>>21605628
>here's nothing to justify.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:57 UTC+1 No.21605705 Report
File: Erich Hartmann speaks of Gerd Barkhorn.jpg-(119x125)
>>21605653While your at...
>>21605653

While your at it, check out John Weal's book on Fw.190 aces, specifically when he talks about Gertrude Barkhorn who'd specifically aim for the cockpits of bombers because one pass on that was enough to bring the whole bird down.

>>21605677

But what's the point of a thread if we aren't going to discuss?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:59 UTC+1 No.21605737 Report

>>21605705
>oh look I'm trolling why aren't you?
Shut the fuck up.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:59 UTC+1 No.21605747 Report
File: cool story.jpg-(125x101)
>>21605681>Posting...
>>21605681

>Posting that like guns can't and don't do worse to people.
>Wah, we're not being nice enough to the enemy!
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:00 UTC+1 No.21605768 Report

>>21605747
To fucking civilians. You would think the Jews of all people would find a problem with murdering civilians
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:02 UTC+1 No.21605797 Report

>>21605737

Also check out this book

http://www.amazon.com/Gunther-Rall-Memoir-Luftwaffe-General/dp/0971553300/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402970450&sr=8-1&keywords=G%C3%BCnther+Rall

If I remember correctly, there's a part in there where he talks about how he developed his own unique style aerial marksmanship
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:03 UTC+1 No.21605809 Report

>>21604321
i am not sure about the weight but they did have parachutes back than the first ones used was 1400's and there was working ones in the 1907
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:05 UTC+1 No.21605850 Report
File: Japanese_Ohka_rocket_plane.jpg-(125x57)
What if you shoot down a...
What if you shoot down a kamikaze and the pilot bails?

Is he fair game?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:08 UTC+1 No.21605896 Report
File: 1402605910904.jpg-(125x70)
>>21605747Faggots like...
>>21605747
Faggots like you are the reason I have come to despise the gun community and the military, you're all amoral mouth breathing retards that laugh at people who are dirt poor that try to defend themselves from unjustified aggression.

I look forward to when the goverment comes to "rescue" you, and all the egalitarian and leftist here in America cheer and laugh as your gun downed by the police.
>NB4 HUUR WE'LL WIN 1776!
No, no you won't you are fat stupid, and most of all content otherwise you would have done something already. And when they come you will timidly give up your guns like the giant mangina you are, or better yet be gun down like the dumb shits you are.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:08 UTC+1 No.21605898 Report

>>21605850
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiZ2ig8QUaI

Looks like he's got it covered
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:09 UTC+1 No.21605918 Report
File: FAGGOT.jpg-(125x83)
>>21605896
>>21605896
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:10 UTC+1 No.21605930 Report

>>21605898

>Kills himself
>BULLETS HITTING THE WATER
>THE MAN WITH THE PISTOL IS IN THE SHOT

WOW

AMERICAN PROPAGANDA AT IT'S FINEST
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:11 UTC+1 No.21605936 Report

>>21605681
I see that it works well. A and B show that WP is truly an effective weapon against personnel. Nothing to justify.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:11 UTC+1 No.21605950 Report

>>21605896

Why do you even visit /k/?
>>
EliteDWB 06/17/14(Tue)03:13 UTC+1 No.21605966 Report
File: Too big for bait.jpg-(85x125)
>>216058961/10
>>21605896
1/10
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:13 UTC+1 No.21605971 Report
File: 1373080342743.jpg-(125x111)
>>21605768>civilians
>>21605768
>civilians
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:15 UTC+1 No.21605990 Report

>>21605971
Are we using Obama drone logic, that if it's brown and has a cock its is a soldier?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:17 UTC+1 No.21606012 Report

>>21605950
I like guns, I mainly lurk, for pictures, but I despise you warmongering simpletons that take joy in some poor fucker whose not even out of the bronze age mentally being gun down a fucking death machine three miles away just so Halliburton can make a slight gain in profits by charging the occupied goverment the cost of cleaning up the mess,and construction cost for collateral damage.
>>21605966
Nope I'm serious.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:20 UTC+1 No.21606049 Report

>>21605896
First off, you're a fucking troll. No one can be this retarded. Secondly, you're also so fucking dumb for thinking anyone would make a move "on the government" until its time.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:21 UTC+1 No.21606063 Report

>>21603349
>Even then, you're still not allowed to shoot them, even if they're evading capture.

Yes you fucking well are. It only applies to being under a parachute. When they're on the ground they're fair game.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:23 UTC+1 No.21606086 Report

>>21606012
>>>/pol/
I can smell the stormfront
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:28 UTC+1 No.21606150 Report

>>21606086
>Israel shouldn't use weapons banned by the Geneva Convention on civilians
>antisemetic
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:28 UTC+1 No.21606153 Report

>>21606049
Nope not a troll, second when it is time it will be to late.
Iraq and Afghanistan was nice training for the police, and military, and America will be a cake walk when its "time" because its full of nothing but cowards, and fatties.

You see you all fear death most Middle Easterns welcome it, you'll suck off the first solider just to get aid when things fall apart.
>>21606086
>Huuur hes against American aggression in the middle he must be a Neo-nazi!
/pol/, and stormfront is for retards so I'm sure you'll fit right in.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:29 UTC+1 No.21606167 Report

>>21603902
>paint super special command tank as such and give It flags and streamers
>wonder why it draws attention from the enemy like a white girl in the ghetto
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:30 UTC+1 No.21606179 Report

>>21605850
weren't the cockpits on those things bolted shut so you COULDN'T bail?
>>
EliteDWB 06/17/14(Tue)03:30 UTC+1 No.21606181 Report

>>21606012
Dear god.

I have no proper response for this. I guess I'll try to appeal to your reason: You know that almost no one here will ever agree with you, right? This isn't really the place to say this kinda shit.

You have every right to, and by all means continue if you want, but all you're gonna do is piss a lot of people off and change exactly 0 minds.
>>
sekrit jew conspiracy 06/17/14(Tue)03:30 UTC+1 No.21606183 Report

>>21606150
>Geneva Convention
Hague Convention, my schizoid friend
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:33 UTC+1 No.21606214 Report

>>21606012

So, what do you think about not being allowed to shoot pilots that have bailed out of an airplane?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:35 UTC+1 No.21606238 Report

>>21606183
So why doesn't Israel follow either convention?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:36 UTC+1 No.21606251 Report

>>21606238
no one follows it
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:37 UTC+1 No.21606273 Report

>>21606181
Not who you're responding to, but a lot of people here share that view.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:39 UTC+1 No.21606297 Report

>>21606251
Everyone uses chemical weapons on civis?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:40 UTC+1 No.21606308 Report

>>21604168
Is it zero? I forget.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:40 UTC+1 No.21606309 Report

>>21603836
I was reading a history book that said they would drop cinder blocks on each other.
All I can think of now is two Charlie Chaplin looking pilots trying to drop cinder blocks on each other while the Benny Hill theme plays.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:41 UTC+1 No.21606321 Report

>>21603882
Fuck man, you just brought back so many memories.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:42 UTC+1 No.21606338 Report

>>21602814
Officers are pussies.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:46 UTC+1 No.21606377 Report

>>21606297
>chemical weapons
>WP
Thanks for helping establish that you are being dishonest. At this point there is nothing more to discuss, at least not with you.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:49 UTC+1 No.21606406 Report

>>21606377
White Phosphorous is an incendiary weapon, not a chemical weapon, dipshit
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:51 UTC+1 No.21606427 Report

>>21606377
>>21606406

>white phosphorous
>not a chemical

So is it like, made of antimater or some shit?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:53 UTC+1 No.21606460 Report

>>21606406
>>21606377
>Burning white phosphorus produces a hot, dense, white smoke consisting mostly of phosphorus pentoxide. Exposure to heavy smoke concentrations of any kind for an extended period (particularly if near the source of emission) has the potential to cause illness or death. White phosphorus smoke irritates the eyes, mucous membranes of the nose, and respiratory tract in moderate concentrations, while higher concentrations can produce severe burns. The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry has set an acute inhalation Minimum Risk Level (MRL) for white phosphorus smoke of 0.02 mg/m3, the same as fuel-oil fumes. By contrast, the chemical weapon mustard gas is 30 times more potent: 0.0007 mg/m3.[91]

What is the toxicity threshold for chemical weapons?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:54 UTC+1 No.21606483 Report

You want to see an assbeating? Watch a mortar crew get captured by the people they dropped rounds on.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:55 UTC+1 No.21606490 Report
File: 1343106918912.jpg-(125x70)
>>21604287Just going to...
>>21604287
Just going to reply to that with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_J._Baggett

For the TL;DR version:
>American pilot Owen Bagget is shot down
>Jap pilot strafing him in his chute
>Bagget pulls his .45 because fuck dying without fighting back
>shoots down jap plane with .45
>.45
>mfw this guy
>>
EliteDWB 06/17/14(Tue)03:58 UTC+1 No.21606533 Report

>>21606490
>Now that's some real stopping power.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)03:59 UTC+1 No.21606552 Report

>This sniper just killed the guy next to me
>I'll skin him alive and leave him for the crows

>This tank crewman was in a rusty slavbucket, and he's crawling out of the flaming wreckage
>lol let me see if I air condition his chest

>This machine gunner cut down my best buddies
>I'll see if his testicles can fit in his mouth

>Oh this pilot just strafed my buddies down there, probably killing an entire company of my fellow brothers in arms
>I'll let him live because muh honour

Japanese had one thing right. Pilots are the absolute greatest threat to your army, and most of them have the blood of HUNDREDS (both military and civilian) of people.

Maybe its because America always has air superiority, and we never have to deal with enemy bombs raining on us, but if I knew this guy had obliterated dozens of my friends from the sky, I would make sure his death would be slow.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:00 UTC+1 No.21606575 Report

>>21606153
Who said I fear death you boot licker? All the police and military in that situation just want a paycheck. What makes you think we cant give them that witg external help? Also no, you're a fucking troll.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:05 UTC+1 No.21606648 Report

>>21606427
so I suppose napalm is a chemical weapon as well then? Oh, and guns must be chemical weapons too, because sulphur and potassium nitrate are chemicals!
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:06 UTC+1 No.21606654 Report

>>21604631
Officers and therefore nobility.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:06 UTC+1 No.21606661 Report
File: f-15e.jpg-(125x91)
>>21603990Seriously,...
>>21603990
Seriously, some A-10 and F-15E pilots have more then 100 CAS missions with ordnance used under their belts. It is pretty bonkers when you think that some fat Lt Col walking around Al Udeid Air Base probably has more kills then the grittiest Tier 1 guys.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:07 UTC+1 No.21606679 Report

>>21606648
>implying it isn't fucked up to drop napalm on civis
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:10 UTC+1 No.21606719 Report

>>21606679
>implying civvies

When you disregard all existing ''laws of war'' about acceptable casualties then stopping a guerilla war becomes simple.

War is war. The Geneva Convention is for people too weak to win.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:11 UTC+1 No.21606726 Report

>>21603067
That is an old man that will kill you for even lookin' at his tobaccy weird.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:14 UTC+1 No.21606767 Report

>>21606661
>dat f15
unf
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:15 UTC+1 No.21606777 Report

>>21606460
Chief mechanism of action. Anything that will kill you via poisoning faster than it kills you via other means. If something kills you via trauma or thermal burns before poisoning becomes relevant, it's not CW. Thus, WP, DU darts, Napalm(lots of cancer-causing agents in that), and lead bullets are not chemical weapons.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:21 UTC+1 No.21606848 Report

>>21606719
>dat edgy
>>21606777
I don't think burning someone to death is that much better than poisoning them
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:22 UTC+1 No.21606863 Report

Pilots cost alot to produce..

So captured downed pilots are massive bargenning chips. .

Think Black Hawk Down... Could of been killed and ripped apart, but the chief wanted him alive to use to bargain with the US forces.

But. in Vietnam, pilots wernt usually treated very well..
Captured Gunship piolts where usually skinned alive (going off some reports/books I have read over the years).
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:24 UTC+1 No.21606891 Report

>>21606863
If someone was dropping agent orange and napalm on me, I would skin the fucker alive too
>>
scary jew conspirator 06/17/14(Tue)04:26 UTC+1 No.21606905 Report
File: hello.jpg-(125x100)
>>21606848Keep on moving...
>>21606848
Keep on moving those goalposts, /pol/front
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:27 UTC+1 No.21606927 Report

>>21606905
So burning civis is ok as long as Israel does it?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:29 UTC+1 No.21606950 Report

>>21606777
The problem with your assessment is that WP, when used as a weapon, is considered a chemical agent. It may catch fire, but it behaves like and has to be decontaminated like a typical blister agent.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:35 UTC+1 No.21606991 Report

>>21605372
The fuck do you faggots believe this shit for? Chivalry is not what the media and fairy tales told you. It never fucking existed outside of theory and egotistical rants. I bet you believe that Japanese Bushido shit too. Pathetic.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:38 UTC+1 No.21607021 Report

>>21604752
umm... yeah he did.

>lincolns home is about 2 miles from me
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Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:44 UTC+1 No.21607109 Report

>>21606848
being burnt alive is my greatest fear.

I can think of nothing worse.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:51 UTC+1 No.21607216 Report

>>21607109
That one execution method where they pour liquid metal down your throat.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:59 UTC+1 No.21607320 Report

>>21604631
>who is George bush
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)05:06 UTC+1 No.21607394 Report

>>21604731
It would be 911,000!!!
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)05:08 UTC+1 No.21607408 Report

Someone mentioned that the Geneva Convention prohibits attacking dams and other energy generation sites, but what about if it is key to shut down enemy manufacturing capabilities? Like what the dam busters did?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)05:15 UTC+1 No.21607495 Report

Only angels fall from the sky during battle while the lowly demons crawl to and from the earth on their bellies scouring for scraps of flesh. Presumably yours
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)05:41 UTC+1 No.21607765 Report

>>21605111
>but muh geneva convention!
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)06:27 UTC+1 No.21608291 Report

>>21607216
that would also suck
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)07:46 UTC+1 No.21609085 Report

>>21604607
what destroyer is 25000 tons?
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)08:01 UTC+1 No.21609217 Report

>>21607408
the only people who follow the geneva convention are those who gain from it. And even then... not all the time. The geneva convention effectively stops nobody from doing anything. It only opens you up to reprisals... maybe.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)08:09 UTC+1 No.21609287 Report

>>21602819
really?
http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2011/06/best-shot-1911-ever

i mean the US and many germans forbid shooting parachuting enemies (paratroopers the exception)
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)08:09 UTC+1 No.21609295 Report

>>21609217
Geneva conventions exist so that winners can always pin war crimes on losers' undesirable military or political figures.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)08:10 UTC+1 No.21609306 Report

>>21609287
>i mean the US and many germans forbid shooting parachuting enemies

Yes, it's actually in the conventions of war, it's illegal to shoot a person leaving an aircraft in distress
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)08:12 UTC+1 No.21609324 Report

>>21606719
>When you disregard all existing ''laws of war'' about acceptable casualties then stopping a guerilla war becomes simple.
>What is not understanding guerrilla war or history.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)08:18 UTC+1 No.21609371 Report
File: 1402652318604.jpg-(93x124)
>>21604377>Americans...
>>21604377
>Americans actually believe that the primary function of Iran's nuclear program is the production of nuclear weaponry
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)08:27 UTC+1 No.21609445 Report

>>21603349
They don't fight on landing though. They gtfo as fast as they can to get another plane
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)08:34 UTC+1 No.21609495 Report

>>21606533
why the fuck do you think we love that fucking gun?

its a gun made for one purpose.
WAR!
And it did just that.
In fact the marines brought the m1911 design back because pussy italian 9mm shit doesn't kill you dead enough.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)08:36 UTC+1 No.21609509 Report

>>21607109
drowning, needle torcher, eating a hot coal,
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)08:43 UTC+1 No.21609571 Report

>>21606167
>implying it's that easy to see
>implying you'd get anywhere near it without first meeting the rest of the tanks and the rest of the force

Even an infantry platoon commander is pretty easy to see if you know what you're looking for. But looking at him obviously wheeling and dealing without being in contact with the rest of the platoon, the rest of the company, the rest of the fucking brigade? Uncommon.
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)08:44 UTC+1 No.21609577 Report

>>21606153
I can't wait for faggots like you to shit themselves when a militia rolls down your street. Watch your back little bitch!
>>
Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)14:52 UTC+1 No.21611356 Report

>>21609306

>it's illegal to shoot a person leaving an aircraft in distress

Actually, you can still shoot paratroopers, even if they're leaving their aircraft in distress.

Funny enough, yeah? So the guys on the ground have to be careful not to shoot the pilot of that cargo-plane, but the paratroopers themselves are still fair game.
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