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File: at-802u 3.jpg-(1 MB, 1606x1094)
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/17/us/supreme-court-ohio-lies-politics-guns-abortion.html?hpw&rref=us&_r=0>...
Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)21:50 UTC+1 No.21602024 Report

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/17/us/supreme-court-ohio-lies-politics-guns-abortion.html?hpw&rref=us&_r=0

> By a 5-to-4 vote, the court allowed a prosecution under a federal law that requires gun buyers to disclose that they are making their purchase for someone else, even if both the straw buyer and the real one are eligible to own guns.

pic unrelated
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Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)21:51 UTC+1 No.21602037 Report

Oh gee so nothing new?
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Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)21:56 UTC+1 No.21602094 Report

What I don't understand is their ruling, so it's illegal to buy a gun as gift for someone now? Or do you just have to state it's a gift. If all you have to do is state it's a gift for someone else then it really does nothing in the long run.
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Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)21:57 UTC+1 No.21602109 Report

>>21602094
>so it's illegal to buy a gun as gift for someone now?

No, you just have to tell the truth on the 4473. The guy in the case lied on the 4473.
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Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)21:59 UTC+1 No.21602133 Report

>>21602094
>>21602109
What if you buy it for yourself and then give it to someone else like a month later? Do you still need to tell them?
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Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)22:05 UTC+1 No.21602204 Report

>>21602109
It was my understanding that as soon as you said "no" on the "This gun is for myself" line that they couldn't sell it too you because you are admitting to a straw purchase, even if the other person can legally own it.
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Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)22:51 UTC+1 No.21602728 Report

>>21602037
wasnt straw purchasing already illegal in all states?
exceptions being gifts?
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Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:12 UTC+1 No.21602986 Report

bump
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Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:15 UTC+1 No.21603034 Report

>>21602024
This does fucking NOTHING.
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Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:18 UTC+1 No.21603091 Report

>>21602024
"All lawful purposes"
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Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:38 UTC+1 No.21603325 Report

>>21602133
If you buy a gun with the intended purpose to give it to someone else, and you tick "just for myself" than its a violation of the law. It works similar to creating firearms where you can't make them with the intent to sell without the proper licenses, but if you make it and then a couple of weeks later "decide you don't want it" than you are free to give it away/sell it. I think the ATF recommends you put a serial on it if you decide on that route.
In full disclosure, I don't advocate any straw purchasing or "suddenly deciding to sell/give" a firearm because if you're caught you'll probably make it worse for everyone else.
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Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:41 UTC+1 No.21603357 Report

>>21602024
When was the last time a LEO asked you to verify how you acquired your firearms?
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Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:45 UTC+1 No.21603400 Report

>>21603325

What I don't understand is how the fuck this is supposed to work for gifts. The previous understanding is that it was entirely legal for someone to purchase a firearm in their name with the intention of giving it to another as a gift. Hell, we get wives, fathers, all manner of people in our store all the time buying guns for their spouses, kids, etc etc. Technically under this ruling that is now illegal, which is insane.
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Anonymous 06/16/14(Mon)23:49 UTC+1 No.21603437 Report

>>21603400

If you're buying it as a gift, wouldn't you just say at the point of purchase "it's a gift"?
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Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:01 UTC+1 No.21603581 Report

Here's what confuses me:

I'm allowed to sell my guns in a private transaction, as long as I reasonably believe the person getting the gun would pass a background check, etc.

How long do I have to own the gun before I can decide to sell it to another person? Do I have to shoot one round out of it? Do I have to work the action once? What if I change my mind on the drive home about wanting to keep and use this firearm? Can't I sell it to who I want?

There isn't a clear bright line, at least that I can see.
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Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)00:03 UTC+1 No.21603611 Report

>>21603437

The problem here is that technically according to this ruling, if they are buying it as a gift they are not specifically buying it for themselves. They are buying it with the intention of transferring it to another individual. Even if the receiver of the gift is a legal possessor of firearms, this case indicates it's still an illegal straw purchase.

That would mean that as an employee of a firearms retailer, if I were to to suspect for any reason that the firearm was intended as a gift, I would have to terminate the sale. Imagine how ridiculous that is. Even something like "Oh my husband is going to love this, it's our 50th anniversary next week." and I would legally have to show her the door.
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Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)02:34 UTC+1 No.21605377 Report

>>21602204
This is correct and anyone who has filled out a 4473 should know this. They put it right there in bold text.
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Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)04:55 UTC+1 No.21607258 Report

>>21603581
You don't have to anything legally.
You see, what fucked up in this guy's case is that he basically said "Yes, I'm buying this gun to give it to someone else" innocently thinking that Form 4473 was asking him if he was sending his friend a gift when he was reading that question like Steam does when you buy games. But however, saying that on that is a no no because of strawpurchasing, and he got fucked and took it to the Supreme Court to fix that bullshit. The Supreme Court ruled what the Pennsylvania government did was ok, even though it's retarded and he didn't do anything physically wrong or illegal in the actual transfer with the gun to his friends hands.

Let me put this way, under this law:
-You can buy a gun for yourself, walk out the gun store, immediately don't want it anymore. And sell it to your buddy outside and it would be perfectly legal.
-You can buy a gun for yourself, walk out the gun store, and immediately think you don't want it anymore, and transfer it to your buddy outside, and it's perfectly legal.
-But you can't go into a gun store and documentedly say you want to buy this gun for your buddy as a gift.

It's arbitrary, there's no proof you need to show the government you're buying the gun for yourself, and there's no proof needed in actually transferring and selling it. You can't just say on document you're buying for someone else, which realistically only applies for FFL, I doubt law agency would call in a SWAT team if you text your friend how you're going to buy a gun for your dad and transfer it to him for fathersday. So there's really nothing with this legal ruling that actually stops private sales or transfers, it basically says the government can fuck you over if you say to them you're going to buy a gun and give it to your friend who is not a felon.
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Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)05:08 UTC+1 No.21607411 Report

>>21603357
>I bought them
>Can you show a receipt?
>Private party
>Oh, ok then.
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Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)05:28 UTC+1 No.21607655 Report

>>21607258
You're wrong about the facts in this case. The litigant bought a gun for his uncle. If he had given it as a gift it would be fine, if he had sold it to his uncle afterwards it would be fine. The issue is that his uncle gave him the money to purchase the gun for him three days before the sale took place. It wasn't, "Uncle, I will buy this gun and give it to you as a gift," or "Uncle, I will buy this gun and sell it to you;" it was "Nephew, here is money, buy this gun for me."

The actual moral of the story is that you should never write "Glock 19 handgun" on the memo line of the check you give another person so they can buy you a gun.
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Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)05:44 UTC+1 No.21607791 Report

I wonder how this affects my wife and I since I fill out the 4473's for gun purchases we make.

Is there any way to ask the BATF a question about something like this formally? Should I have a lawyer ask for me? I'm honestly a little concerned. I mean I've never made any firearms related purchase that could be considered a straw purchase and never would. But I do live in Illinois so ...like I said, a little concerned.
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Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)05:46 UTC+1 No.21607812 Report

>>21603034
But it makes them feel good, so shh.
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Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)05:50 UTC+1 No.21607852 Report

>>21607411

>private party
>no receipt

... for now.
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Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)05:52 UTC+1 No.21607884 Report

>>21607791
Actually bother to read the information on the case, it wouldn't apply to your situation. Either way Illinois is not a community property state so all property acquired during the marriage belongs the the marriage and as such belongs equally to both of you.
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Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)05:58 UTC+1 No.21607969 Report

>>21607791
i think this post will answer your question>>21607655
you should be fine
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Anonymous 06/17/14(Tue)06:11 UTC+1 No.21608120 Report

>>21607884
Yea, I bothered to read it. maybe you should add some fiber to your diet.
>>21607969
I was already pretty sure, I just know how sometimes over zealous LEO's will twist laws to get an easy felony arrest.
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