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/lit/ - Literature - Ten Monkeys

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Ten Monkeys Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:08 UTC+1 No.5191575 Report

So, there was this cage with five monkeys in it. In the middle of a cage there was a ladder. At the top of the ladder, there was a banana. Soon one of the monkeys climbed up to the top of the ladder and ate the banana. The four other monkeys immediately were dosed with cold water.

This was repeated a few times, until the monkeys caught on. They started beating up the monkeys who tried to grab the banana. After a short while, no monkey tried.

Now one of the monkeys was taken out of the cage and replaced with a brand new one. The new monkey, not knowing the rules, tried to climb up the ladder and grab the banana. The four more experienced monkeys beat him up right away. This only had to happen twice before the new monkey stopped trying to grab the banana.

So, the original monkeys kept being replaced by new ones. Each time a new monkeys entered, it tried to grab the banana. Each time a monkey tried to grab the banana it was beaten up by the others, even the ones that were not present during the original water dosing.

After a time, all of the original monkeys were replaced. In the cage there now were five monkeys who sat still on the ground, not trying to grab the banana, and beating up any monkey who did. And none of them really knew why.
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:09 UTC+1 No.5191581 Report

Do animals possess a sense of morality? If not, what sepparates us from the monkeys in the story?
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:11 UTC+1 No.5191587 Report

nice story bro. But no, you are wrong.
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:14 UTC+1 No.5191592 Report

Animals do not have a sense of morality, and the monkeys are different from us because in your story they were only concerned with a learned pattern of self preservation.
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:15 UTC+1 No.5191593 Report

>>5191592
>only concerned with a learned pattern of self preservation

If you try to look at it objectivly, isn't human morality also collective self preservation?
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:15 UTC+1 No.5191595 Report

>>5191581

i think that example demonstrates that monkeys have morality

i would say that all herd animals have some sense of morality, but only under a moral system where morality is indistinguishable from biological drives for empathy, beauty, lack of suffering, etc

if you believe morality goes deeper than emotions and into objective stuff, deontological stuff, I dont think anybody but Humans could have deontological morality, because it requires that self-consciousness that will allow you to reflexively analyze not just choices but motivations

i would say in general, intense self-consciousness is what separates us from other animals, but im personally not of the opinion that our morality is objective or especially different from animal herd-instincts
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:31 UTC+1 No.5191618 Report

>>5191595
Dude, my dog suffers so bad from existential crises, so you're wrong. I could literally write a fucking book on how depressed he is about deep fucking shit.
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:35 UTC+1 No.5191626 Report

>>5191618
lol how the fuck do you know that he does not just have low dopamine levels?
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:35 UTC+1 No.5191627 Report

Why bring up morality here btw? Just curious.
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:37 UTC+1 No.5191635 Report

>>5191627
OP here

Because I think this is the only board where one can get some thought through opinions.

>Captcha: Nowsage use
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:39 UTC+1 No.5191636 Report

>>5191626
Because he gets depressed about legitimately intellectual shit (like form, privilege, etc.), has a hand fetish, and tries to sneakily -- sneakily, mind you -- rub his dick against my leg.
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:39 UTC+1 No.5191638 Report

>>5191636
>Because he gets depressed about legitimately intellectual shit (like form, privilege, etc.)

Yeaaaahh, I'm gonna need some evidence here negro
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:41 UTC+1 No.5191640 Report

>>5191638
If he's left outside barking to come in for too long, he'll make a beeline for the bathroom and piss on the floor there pretty much the moment he gets in. He's legitimately and obviously pissed off about being a dog.
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:42 UTC+1 No.5191641 Report

>>5191626

>implying deep existential depression is distinguishable from low dopamine levels
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:42 UTC+1 No.5191642 Report

>>5191640
legit kek :D
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:44 UTC+1 No.5191647 Report

I once watched a documentary about a Russian prince who was born with a lame arm (or two lame arms, I can't remember) and all through the biography, which detailed all his fetishes, mannerisms, considerations, etc., as a result, I was looking at my dog like, "wtffff, my dog is literally the dog version of this dude."
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:56 UTC+1 No.5191683 Report

I have another dog then, an older and (I'm pretty sure) resentful dog, who I'm pretty sure manufactured a grand scheme to walk me into his shit one night.
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)10:57 UTC+1 No.5191685 Report

And I can go on with shit like this in general...
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)11:04 UTC+1 No.5191697 Report

Protip btw: Never talk about dogs feeling like that around women, because women compete with dogs.
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)11:05 UTC+1 No.5191700 Report

Yeah, I'm leering conspiratorially over the top of my computer screen right now
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)11:07 UTC+1 No.5191705 Report

>>5191635
morality would be useless even if someone could properly define it
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)11:12 UTC+1 No.5191719 Report

>>5191705
Actually OP has quite cleverly touched upon what morality is.
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)11:13 UTC+1 No.5191725 Report

I wonder if this topic didn't arise from a recent thread on 1984, OP?
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)11:25 UTC+1 No.5191747 Report

OK, I'll say what morality is then. It's a big fucking lie, all of it, pretty much. None of your feelings are real, but after the fact, basically they're you allowing yourself to get caught up in the wash that is other people's emotions, feeling what they're feeling because otherwise they might see you as uncaring, a threat, whatever, much like why the monkeys who weren't dosed with cold water still joined in in beating the other monkeys. All there is, really, is the avoidance of pain, and all other feelings are built around that. Nothing separates us from the animals but complexity of consideration. Derren Brown actually does some pretty fucked up tricks that pull up that lizard brain and are Milgram experiment-tier to illustrate all this. There's pretty much nothing about you that isn't the avoidance of, and distancing yourself from, pain.
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)11:27 UTC+1 No.5191751 Report

>>5191747
And not surprisingly Derren Brown is in a relationship with a beta male --- love? or power.
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Anonymous 07/26/14(Sat)11:31 UTC+1 No.5191764 Report

And still there's a prettiness in the idea of morality, in reciprocal consideration between people. It reaches into the eternal, I guess ---I'm certainly not beta, I'll fight any of you fuckers.
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