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Z28brah 07/23/14(Wed)17:53 UTC+1 No.10738637 Report

I want to turn my camaro into a 9 second car. My coworker says that I should simply rebuild the LT1 engine instead of swapping an LS3 because of cost, etc. But a stock LS3 generates 525 HP, while a stroked out, rebuilt LT1 can MAYBE get 430.

I can save up $7k over a few years, why wouldn't that be the way to go?

Pic related
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)17:54 UTC+1 No.10738644 Report

I think you answered your own question matey
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)17:54 UTC+1 No.10738645 Report

Boost the LT1
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)17:58 UTC+1 No.10738666 Report

hoosiers + turbo
Z28brah 07/23/14(Wed)18:08 UTC+1 No.10738719 Report


I'm on the fence. I don't want to put too much power in and grenade my car. Or am I retarded

I plan on going with a procharger kit if I rebuild the LT1. Though I don't see why I can't turbo or procharge the LS3 either...
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)18:09 UTC+1 No.10738729 Report

You can, but you also said on 7k.

LS3+boost probably aint gonna happen for that.
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)18:13 UTC+1 No.10738744 Report


Pretty much this.

Boost and slicks will get you more bang for your buck than an engine swap ever will.

525 HP probably won't get you into the 9's anyway. Plus you'd need a pretty damn good cage and an idea as to what in the hell your suspension actually does to get it to hook worth a damn.

I think the 9.x range also has a chute requirement.
Stolen Recaros 07/23/14(Wed)18:14 UTC+1 No.10738749 Report

>But a stock LS3 generates 525 HP
Where did you get that number? LS3's make like 426 in the Camaro.
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)18:15 UTC+1 No.10738754 Report

Buy a motorcycle.
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)18:16 UTC+1 No.10738757 Report

LS/LQ guy here
Boost it. A couple Holset HX35/HX40 turbos would be cheapish and would get you your nines.
Z28brah 07/23/14(Wed)18:18 UTC+1 No.10738773 Report



Yeah, I don't really want to put more than 10K into the car since it's just a hobby, and I still want to be able to cruise with it on the weekends...

Looked into a ninja, remembered I'm a pussy, aborted idea
Z28brah 07/23/14(Wed)18:19 UTC+1 No.10738783 Report


I was looking into this, I don't know much about turbos though

Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)18:21 UTC+1 No.10738789 Report

Find an iron 5.3/6.0. Apply power adder of choice in copious amounts.
Stolen Recaros 07/23/14(Wed)18:22 UTC+1 No.10738794 Report

The 4.8 is actually the best candidate for boost because of its smaller displacement.
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)18:22 UTC+1 No.10738795 Report

If you need to ask how how to build a 9 second car then you are in trouble
Z28brah 07/23/14(Wed)18:24 UTC+1 No.10738809 Report


lmao. I'm still learning about cars, just been watching more drag racing videos and the like. Doesn't have to be nine seconds, I just want to be faster than any other mustang/firebird out there
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)18:24 UTC+1 No.10738810 Report


>I don't really want to put more than 10K into the car

>9's for $10k or less

Get a ZX-14, add a few bolts ons and learn to drive. That's the only way you'll ever manage 9's for under $10k.

That or buy a built car, but even then, you'll probably only get a 9 second capable roller for $10k, and still need to provide a decent motor and trans for it.

Racing ain't cheap buddy.
NC_Fag 07/23/14(Wed)18:24 UTC+1 No.10738812 Report


Because a modified LS3 with slicks would run mid to low 11's, maybe high 10's with a seasoned vet at the wheel

You're gonna need boost
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)18:26 UTC+1 No.10738820 Report

You can do the whole swap for $500. Can you build an LT1 that cheap?
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)18:27 UTC+1 No.10738821 Report

get off the crack
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)18:27 UTC+1 No.10738823 Report

Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)18:29 UTC+1 No.10738828 Report

>wants to run 9's
>things a simple motor swap would do the trick

First you need the power, then you need to be able to get that power to the ground. Having 600+ HP is going to require some serious modification to the chassis, suspension, rear end, transmission, driveshaft, and clutch/stall converter.

With a budget like that, you wouldn't see 9s.
Z28brah 07/23/14(Wed)18:38 UTC+1 No.10738875 Report


Yeah, definitely know that. I plan on doing roughly $2k jobs on it per summer, like 2k on suspension, 2k on wheels, etc etc

I am well aware my stock 1997 car won't be blazing fast with a new engine popped in it

u wot m8
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)18:42 UTC+1 No.10738904 Report


tripfag pls go. save your money instead of pouring into an old fbody
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)18:43 UTC+1 No.10738908 Report

>Doesn't have to be nine seconds, I just want to be faster than any other mustang/firebird out there
Dear lord.
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)18:48 UTC+1 No.10738945 Report

>2k on wheels
I thought you were trying to go fast?
Z28brah 07/23/14(Wed)18:51 UTC+1 No.10738965 Report


I need bigger wheels to throw on fat tires :p
termi 07/23/14(Wed)19:02 UTC+1 No.10739017 Report

Ls motors are shit get a lq

>virtually identical flow
>isnt made out of cast aluminum
>less ricer tax
>doesnt have a fischer price rotating assembly
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)19:26 UTC+1 No.10739140 Report


Guessing this is an LTx Z28? If so, you will need to get it down to about 3,100 lbs with a cage and fuel cell and all of that, which shouldn't be too hard. At 3,100 lbs you will probably need a tick over 600 to the tire to break into the 9s. And that assumes excellent tire and suspension setup with fantastic consistent 60' times. The car will more likely run consistent mid-10s with an average driver. If you have a T56, ditch that. At least you can recoup some cost. If you have a 4L60E then ditch that too. You are going to need a built automatic. Expect to spend $3k just for that. You will also need to ditch the 7 5/8" 10 bolt rear end. That will need to be replaced by something like a Dana 60, Ford 9" Ford 8.8" or GM 12 bolt. The kits to retain the torque arm are wildly expensive so the best bet is a built Ford 8.8" that eliminates the torque arm and goes to a 4 link, which is better for a drag car anyway. Now that you are already $5k in just on the safety gear, transmission, and rearend you can figure out what to do with the engine. If you keep the LTx it will be tricky to make over 600 to the tire without a forged bottom end stroker kit and a bunch of nitrous or a twin turbo setup. If you went with a budget setup and used twin Holset turbos from something like a 5.9 Cummins you might be able to build a 600 whp LTx 383 for $5-6k if you really hunt for parts. The better bet would be to build a Holset turbo 6.0 Vortec for about the same money or less. Either way you probably won't safely be in the 9s for much less than $12k. Also, keep in mind if you are blasting a 200-250 shot of nitrous each pass you are going to rack up some serious nitrous bills.

Flip the stock style LT1 manifolds side to side (upside down). Fit two budget Holset turbos from something like a 5.9 Cummins.
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)19:30 UTC+1 No.10739163 Report


Cut me off on the last part. If you build a budget LTx twin turbo car that runs a more modest low 11s then you could keep more stock style parts and have a car that would still be fun to drive on the street and stay closer to your $7k budget.
TheEvoXFreak 07/23/14(Wed)19:37 UTC+1 No.10739200 Report

Damn! I didnt know these came turbocharged
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)19:41 UTC+1 No.10739226 Report


yep. low boost from the factory. how else do you thing a pushrod dinosaur could manage over 400 hp?
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)19:44 UTC+1 No.10739245 Report

pushrods pushgods
Z28brah 07/23/14(Wed)19:45 UTC+1 No.10739251 Report


Thanks for the info man. Everywhere I look online doesn't have turbo kits for my year/model, let alone twin turbos, only procharger. Is it something I'm going to have to just study and get the parts and just make it work? I would love a twin turbo, I'm drooling already.
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)19:48 UTC+1 No.10739265 Report

Daily reminder
ls swap with a turbo results in the fastest car in the world
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)19:49 UTC+1 No.10739268 Report


There probably won't be any kit per se. I know of at least a few people who have done the upside down factory manifolds with Holset turbos. If you search around you can probably find some where people show what works and what doesn't. It will take some custom work and if you have a shop do it then it won't be cheap so figure out how to do it yourself. Skip the Procharger kit because it will likely be woefully inadequate for 600 to the tire.
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)19:52 UTC+1 No.10739282 Report


it's funny how you silly americans still lean on pushrods when ohc has been around since 1903 and dohc since 1918. or perhaps the more chilling thing is that computers and other technologies have vastly changed in a few years yet car makers still use technology that hasn't changed fundamentally in almost a century. i think it's about time for a new cylinder head configuration.
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)19:53 UTC+1 No.10739290 Report

>The 4.8 is actually the best candidate for boost because of its smaller displacement.

no it's not fag, it's a good candidate because IRON BLOCK with good headflow

displacement has nothing to do with it.
Z28brah 07/23/14(Wed)19:54 UTC+1 No.10739295 Report


I'll definitely have some time to study that when I'm away at school, I'll look into it.

One more thing. My coworker who knows all about racing and cars said I should just save up all the money and do everything at once. I'm horrible at saving money. Can I do the suspension one year, gear ratio and other stuff the next, and then rebuilt the motor last? He said it would mess it up as a daily driver if I did one thing at a time...
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)19:56 UTC+1 No.10739302 Report

If it ain't broke, don't fix it
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)19:56 UTC+1 No.10739305 Report

inb4 american companies start making flatheads again
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)19:59 UTC+1 No.10739327 Report

it's funny how you silly europeans still lean on ohc when ohv has been around since 1918 and modern ohv since 1949. or perhaps the more chilling thing is that computers and other technologies have vastly changed in a few years yet car makers still use technology that hasn't changed fundamentally in almost a century. i think it's about time for a new cylinder head configuration.
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)20:00 UTC+1 No.10739337 Report

I'm not American and by you're logic ohc is just as outdated as ohv so both are shit.

The new cylinder head is no cylinder head.
Electric cars are the future.
WalterPeck 07/23/14(Wed)20:02 UTC+1 No.10739340 Report

>it's funny how you silly americans still lean on pushrods

Is that why the FIA/ACO chose the LS3 as the engine of choice for the FLM09/LMPC?
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)20:04 UTC+1 No.10739350 Report

>I'm not American and by you're logic ohc is just as outdated as ohv so both are shit.
actually OHC is significantly older, and the entire reason OHV was created was to allow even larger valves and less complication
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)20:04 UTC+1 No.10739352 Report


I would do it all at once. But, if you can't then I would suggest doing the engine last. If you can't buy all the parts in one go then you are probably best off buying them and storing them. You could do the rear end and suspension, but for a car that runs 9s the transmission is going to need 3.5-4k+ RPM stall, which won't be nice on the street. The rear is also probably going to need a 4.10-4.56 gear too.


This. The 4.8 is often chosen for boost because of the better pistons than 5.3s. Some people just put the 4.8 pistons in 5.3s. But for ring gap land the 4.8 and 5.3 take boost very well. That said the blocks aren't inherently must stronger than the good aluminum LSx blocks. There are some all out race LSx stock style aluminum blocks that top out over 1200 whp. The issue there is cylinder head lift off from nitrous and boost, not the blocks breaking. With fully built internals, the aluminum blocks are only marginally weaker than the cast iron blocks. The cast iron blocks tend to crack around 1400 hp and have the same cylinder head lift issues. The strong point of the Vortecs is the cheap, strong package in stock form. That said, a 4.8 like Hot Rod Mag built is good for at most a drag season even tuned down to about 800 hp. To live more than 10k miles in a street car expect 600-700 max on stock internals, especially without ring gap land modification.
Stolen Recaros 07/23/14(Wed)20:04 UTC+1 No.10739354 Report

New new cylinder head is going camless
>tfw test car is a modified Ecotec Saab
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)20:06 UTC+1 No.10739362 Report


I can't believe this isn't already common. Computer tech and small parts tech has been ready for almost a decade. We landed on the fucking moon, surely we can make a mass production camless engine.
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)20:07 UTC+1 No.10739364 Report

By the time that gets off the ground, electric will be the prevalent
Z28brah 07/23/14(Wed)20:10 UTC+1 No.10739377 Report


i'll probably do suspension and then try to save $12k or so and see what I can do.
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)20:12 UTC+1 No.10739380 Report

sounds overcomplicated and expensive to fix.
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)20:15 UTC+1 No.10739392 Report


I can't see electric cars being prominent in the US unless a few things happen. In the US people want to be able to get in their car and drive across the country by simply refueling, even if most people never actually do that. It's the idea of freedom. Electric cars will need to advance to the point where you can drive one across country and recharge as efficiently as fueling up. And at the same time be the price of a normal car. If that doesn't happen then there is an alternative. Electric cars must be so cheap that people can afford to own an electric and non-electric. That means both cars need to be able to be purchased for about $30-35k total. Then the electric can be used for short commutes. It doesn't really matter that most Americans only commute the distance an electric car can now travel. They want the ability to drive free. As it stands now electric cars are step backwards because they have very limited range or maybe normal range but slow to recharge (keep in mind slow is anything more than a few minutes if you can't go more than say 400-500 miles at a time). There were tons of electric cars at the turn of the 20th century when cars first became popular. In NYC many cars were electric. They suffered the same as current electric cars though. Short ranges, long charge times that just made them impractical compared to even the 1st fledgling ice cars. Electric car tech will need to be about 2-3x more advanced and developed than ice tech before it takes over and for that ice tech will need to effectively top out.
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)20:19 UTC+1 No.10739404 Report


That's what people used to say about 4-cycle engines.
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)20:23 UTC+1 No.10739423 Report

Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)20:39 UTC+1 No.10739486 Report

I recommend getting a big block from some smog era landbarge, getting new heads, headers, carb, forged internals, then twin tarbo it.
Look up Sloppy Mechanics.
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)20:41 UTC+1 No.10739502 Report


Read a 2 vs 4 stroke discussion on any offroad bike forum, Todd.
Anonymous 07/23/14(Wed)21:57 UTC+1 No.10739929 Report

This, although it might still not get you 9 sec 1/4s. Find an old racing shell for cheap and add a cadi 500, olds 455, basically any big American engine and powerglide. Doesn't make any sense making a nine-second street car because of track safety requirements.
Anonymous 07/24/14(Thu)04:30 UTC+1 No.10742225 Report


>cadi 500
>olds 455

Those would both be good ways to sink money into special snowflake odd ball engines that will make less power per dollar than a BBC or BBF. The Cadillac 500 will struggle to make enough power naturally aspirated to make a 2500 lb car run 9s. You could turbo it, but there aren't much for cylinder head options, intakes are expensive, and you need custom forged pistons. A big Olds could be stroked and there are spendy cylinder head options, but again, all at a premium. You can build a 700 hp naturally aspirated BBC for roughly $6-7k. A closer to $7k engine will reliably take a 200 shot of nitrous for the cost of the nitrous kit.

Anonymous 07/24/14(Thu)05:33 UTC+1 No.10742624 Report

That's why you get a Buick 455 and do absolutely nothing too it. HP and Torque already to go.
Anonymous 07/24/14(Thu)05:42 UTC+1 No.10742702 Report


OP wants to run 9's in the 1/4 in a car that when stripped out will be over 3k lbs. Stock Buick 455 power is not going to do the trick. For the most part the Buick 455 costs more upfront, the parts are more expensive and so on. The BBC is very common in drag racing and easy to build to huge cubic inches with plenty of cheap aftermarket cylinder heads, blocks, and rotating assemblies. Plus you have to get a BOP trans and build it up or a special bellhousing.
George Frostington 07/24/14(Thu)06:00 UTC+1 No.10742820 Report


My old LT1 was making 400 wheel the last time it was dyno'd, and it was a relatively cheap build.

A lot of rebuilt LT1s make 700s' wheel horsepower range on medium sized blowers, there are plenty of kits that you could get to push maybe 12 psi through that LT1 (kit 4.5-7k) and with a minor rebuild it'd handle that power reliably unless it has some defects or high mileage, and you'd AT LEAST be seeing 550+ wheel on 91 with a half assed tune.
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