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File: cleveland-abandoned-building.jpg-(116 KB, 620x413)
Looking to do some urban...
Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)18:54 UTC+1 No.271999 Report

Looking to do some urban exploring as soon as we don't have 2 feet of snow on the ground anymore and I was wondering if any of you guys carry with you while you explore? I have my CHL and would prefer to take it in case of unexpected or violent homless/junkie/both/etc.. Though, I am a bit concerned about the legalities of carrying when tresspassing as I'm sure going through abandoned buildings isn't entirely legal.

It'll be mostly around Cleveland/Akron/NE Ohio.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)19:17 UTC+1 No.272013 Report

>>271999
any CCW/CHL holders carry while urban exploring?
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)19:34 UTC+1 No.272017 Report

>>271999
So, just to be clear...

You're wondering if it's a good idea to go break into buildings that, while they may look abandoned to you, are owned by a company, bank or government-etity, in the middle of the night, while carrying a concealed hand-gun?

Go for it, guy. You're definitely not going to prison/getting shot.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)19:47 UTC+1 No.272019 Report

>>272017
Fuck this guy. He probably thinks the police are all that's needed to protect you.

If yer gonna do something like tramp around dark spooky buildings filled with crack heads, looters, and god knows what else, you should probably be armed. But if yer gonna deal with crazies, be prepared to shoot them too. They are not as likely to be intimidated by the sight of a firearm as normal people. Have a plan, and know your exists. Wipe down the bullets in your gun too, load magazine with gloves etc. To answer yer question, yes it goes from trespassing to armed trespassing, which is worse. Don't get caught, duh. And don't be a moron. Only retards need to shoot people, use your wits and your eyes. Don't put yerself in a situation like that. Ditch the weapon if you think you'll be caught, come back for it later.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)19:55 UTC+1 No.272025 Report

>>272017
Are you really talking down on urban exploring on /out/ why don't you go stay in your basement where it's nice and safe. Stay in your basement where you will never run out of mountain dew and your mom's spaghetti.

Seriously, could you be more of a little unadventurous dickweed, you little puss?
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)19:59 UTC+1 No.272027 Report

>>272019

Thanks, Anon. I haven't really done any urban exploring in a while, years really. I've just been kicking around this photography project in my head that will require me to go into abandoned buildings to take photographs. I have no intention or want to disrupt anything or damage anything at all. I just want to come in, take some photos, and leave without a trace is all.

I just wanted to know what the laws were like concerning my own protection. I really don't want to use a gun, but I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)20:05 UTC+1 No.272031 Report

>>272019
>Break into a building
>Armed with concealed weapon
>"be prepared to shoot them too"
That'd be murder or attempted murder. There is absolutely no way for you to claim self-defence while you're committing a crime.

You'll go to prison.

>>272025
>Are you really talking down on urban exploring on /out/ why don't you go stay in your basement where it's nice and safe.
Yes. See, I'm an outdoors-man, rather than a petty criminal looking to upgrade from a misdemeanor to a felony.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)20:06 UTC+1 No.272033 Report

>>272031
>Yes. See, I'm an outdoors-man
So, as an outdoorsman you never happen to travel onto property that isn't your own or where you are legally permitted. You never approve of stealth camping either?
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)20:10 UTC+1 No.272035 Report

>>272033
>So, as an outdoorsman you never happen to travel onto property that isn't your own or where you are legally permitted.
Of course I do. But I don't set-out with the intention of doing it. And I certainly don't go breaking into places with loaded weapons in the middle of the night.
>You never approve of stealth camping either?
Eh--maybe it makes sense for people in Great Britain, or something. "Stealth Camping," in the USA? Really? We have vast tracts of beautiful public lands you can camp on freely. And an amazing park system that allows you to camp in some really amazing parts of the country, if you simply pay a small fee that maintains the park, and wait until you're not over-crowding the place. So no--I don't approve of assholes who simply can't be bothered to follow the rules, because they think they're special.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)20:16 UTC+1 No.272040 Report

>>272031
Only if you get caught! How hard do you think they're gonna look at a dead junkie in a broken down building? Some of us have a sense of adventure, Mr. Law and Order. And yes, you can claim self defense while committing crimes. You can't "murder" someone who tries to kill you. Dead junkie, knife in hands, 9mm in chest. They're not gonna be looking for some middle class white urbanex-ing asshole. And stop assuming the worst, like I said only retards need to shoot people. Learn Aikido or something.

>>272027
Consider a Tazer. Not a stun gun, a Tazer. No dead bodies, no police report.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)20:27 UTC+1 No.272043 Report

>>272035
You were the teacher's pet who always obeyed all of the rules. You don't have too many friends either do you, Anon. Good job at always being so rule-abiding. Must be a boring life though.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)20:33 UTC+1 No.272045 Report

ITT: people advise OP not to commit felonies while some samefag tries to shit on them for not being "adventurous"
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)20:35 UTC+1 No.272046 Report

>>272031
That's just silly talk. Even people who carry guns and actively commit crimes don't get charged with gun crime additions if they didn't use it. The gun and the willingness to kill in self defense have no bearing on whatever petty crime you're going to commit.

I don't recommend breaking into abandoned buildings at all, but eh, I did it when I was a kid. Carrying is probably a good idea generally, but you should know the rules of a self defense shooting already if you've got the CHL/CCW permits, goes with the territory.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)20:35 UTC+1 No.272047 Report

>>272045
>>272035
>>272031
>>272017
samefag pls go
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)20:39 UTC+1 No.272050 Report

>>272046
Are you... are you simply an ignorant person? Hell yes, if you're carrying a gun during the commission of a crime, you will get slapped with the relevant charges. You may be offered a deal to plead to copping to the original charges in exchange for dropping the gun-related parts. On the other hand, the deal you'd otherwise get would be dropping most of the non-gun-related charges in the first place.

>>272047
This one >>272045 wasn't me. I haven't in any-way tried to hide that I was the poster of the other three. I just started ignoring your childish "you don't think it's fun to break into buildings with guns on you? you must not have friends!" taunts, because you're either an idiot or twelve.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)20:39 UTC+1 No.272051 Report

>>272046
Thanks! I am aware of the laws regarding self defense, as I have taken the class, test, and all other steps to get my CHL. I have just been kicking around this idea in my head for a photography project I'd like to get started on this spring. That and being couped up inside all winter has got me feeling a bit more adventurous than usual. I haven't done urban exploring really in almost a decade (when I was in high school).

I'm not actively looking to commit felonies. I am just trying to figure out the best way to protect myself if worse comes to worst and I find myself in a bad situation. I hope I never have to use a gun in self defense, ever. But I'd also rather not be dead, either.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)20:43 UTC+1 No.272052 Report

>>272050
Carrying a gun and using a gun are two completely separate legal concepts. Please go away.

>>272051
There is no better defense than a gun and training with that gun, but doesn't mean other people don't also have the right to defend their property from you... so probably best to avoid committing crimes generally.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)20:59 UTC+1 No.272058 Report

>>272052
Possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony is itself a crime in many areas, go be a fucking retard somewhere else.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)21:01 UTC+1 No.272060 Report

>>272052
>but doesn't mean other people don't also have the right to defend their property from you
Well, being in an abandoned building isn't grounds for shooting me. Also, I'm not going to be there to disrupt or steal, merely to photograph. I'm not worried about the owners, I'm worried about the people who have made homes or nests or whatever inside of the abandoned buildings.

>so probably best to avoid committing crimes generally.
Right, and I would agree. Always have, that's how I was able to get a CHL. I've always had a clean record and generally try to make the right choices in life. That said, I'm looking to do this for my artwork and for my photography is all. I'm not looking to go in armed to the teeth by any means either. I just didn't know if other people have carried their carry guns with them when doing a bit of urban exploring. I edc a Beretta Nano. Nothing crazy, just enough to get me out of a pinch should the situation occur.

If I'm caught for trespassing though, how fucked will I be if I am found with my gun? Are they going to be somewhat lenient on me if they see that I am only there to take photographs and haven't damaged anything or that I have a spotless record and look like a respectable young man?
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)21:02 UTC+1 No.272061 Report

>>272058
Is trespassing/urban exploring a felony?
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)21:04 UTC+1 No.272063 Report

>>272061
I'm assuming not, but there are statutes in at least some places that upgrade the severity of punishment for trespassing if you're armed.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)21:16 UTC+1 No.272070 Report

>>272052
This is inaccurate under current Ohio law. If you shot someone in self-defense while trespassing, you are violating two of the three conditions required for establishing self-defense in that you are violating 1) the instigator because you are trespassing and 3) because you have a duty to retreat because you're trespassing.

>>272060
>I'm not worried about the owners,
You should be. Under current Ohio law, if you are trespassing and carrying a gun, they absolutely will be able to legally shoot and kill you.

>If I'm caught for trespassing though, how fucked will I be if I am found with my gun?
You will be in violation of carrying a concealed weapon into a forbidden zone, as defined in the handbook for your license.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)21:28 UTC+1 No.272073 Report

>>272070
>if you are trespassing and carrying a gun, they absolutely will be able to legally shoot and kill you.
That is not true, even according to the castle doctrine, you can't shoot someone who is not an immediate threat. They wouldn't know I had a gun. It would be carried IWB and only pulled out if I am attacked. I'm not going to be walking around clearing rooms like a fucking goon.

Also I'm not sure what the owners of an abandoned steel mill or rubber factory are going to be doing wondering around. Or one of the many closed down factories in the area. It's not like I'm going there to be aggressive. I'm a skinny and well dressed kid walking around with a camera. I'm not going to be rude to the people I encounter or be looking to get into a gunfight.

>You will be in violation of carrying a concealed weapon into a forbidden zone, as defined in the handbook for your license.
Most buildings are not explicitly "gun free zones" nor do they have signs up saying no guns allowed. Sure, if they do have signs up... well that is pretty damn clear. But there is nothing in the handbook about going into a dilapidated building that has been out of business for over 20 years.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)21:35 UTC+1 No.272076 Report

>>272073
>Most buildings are not explicitly "gun free zones" nor do they have signs up saying no guns allowed.

>Government facilities that are not used primarily as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, or rest facility and are not a courthouse or a building or structure in which a courtroom is located

Who do you think owns most abandoned buildings?
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)21:38 UTC+1 No.272079 Report

>>272073
>Also I'm not sure what the owners of an abandoned steel mill or rubber factory are going to be doing wondering around. Or one of the many closed down factories in the area. It's not like I'm going there to be aggressive. I'm a skinny and well dressed kid walking around with a camera. I'm not going to be rude to the people I encounter or be looking to get into a gunfight.
Your concern in that situation should be security (particularly bored ones) at a building less abandoned than you thought it was.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)21:39 UTC+1 No.272081 Report

>>272076
Nevermind, just fuck this thread. I'm going to carry and if I'm caught I'll explain my situation to the police officer. I'm not going in looking to fight. I'm a respectable young man who dresses well and has never once had a run-in with the law, save a few speeding tickets almost a decade ago. I only want to protect myself while I'm taking photographs.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)21:41 UTC+1 No.272084 Report

>>272079
Well, I'm pretty sure I'll get white privilege because I don't look like our local trouble makers. And I'd rather deal with security than a meth head or heroin junkie.

I can talk to a security officer like a normal human being, regardless of whether or not he is a jack off. I'd rather get busted, written up and told never to come back than try and start shit with him.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)22:45 UTC+1 No.272122 Report

OP, what I wasn't too know is, if you already made your mind up, why ask 4chan?

Also, as a resident of Collinwood and former Detroiter, I can say that you're just not that likely to get caught, as long as you sick to the really busted looking stuff. For all the gunshots I've heard, there haven't been many police sirens.
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Anonymous 02/17/14(Mon)23:10 UTC+1 No.272144 Report

>>272081
>confessing
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Anonymous 02/18/14(Tue)09:57 UTC+1 No.272463 Report

>>272047
Look up what a samefag actually does you retard. He's not a samefag.
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Anonymous 02/18/14(Tue)10:18 UTC+1 No.272465 Report

>>272463
To be clear: three of those four comments were very-clearly the same person (me). One of them was not (>>272047). Not that I pretended to not be myself and advocate something that worked as a strawman to help me prove my point. But even that douche just mean "the same person," then it's still not accurate.

If OP is going to do this? Then OP is going to do this. If OP is genuinely asking for good advice regarding whether-or-not to break into buildings while carrying a gun? The only good advice that there is to offer is "fucking don't." And I've done my best to offer that. And I'm perfectly-happy to take credit for those comments that I made (Full credit belongs to "Random anon on the internet").
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Anonymous 02/18/14(Tue)13:36 UTC+1 No.272489 Report

This thread is funny, I do a fair amount of Urb-Ex in the UK and obviously don't carry a gun.

Do you guys have trouble being aware of your surroundings or something? It's not hard to stay alert and avoid trouble before it even knows your there.

Sorry to say but you're coming across as pussies and I can see why so many people get shot in murika--land of the free.
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Anonymous 02/18/14(Tue)13:52 UTC+1 No.272494 Report

Meh. Take your cattledog and a bat. If cops ask you "literally just caught the cunt, got off his chain!" And you can always just peg your stick.

Yoise kents b rooks from way back when for the skinny of it
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Anonymous 02/19/14(Wed)07:47 UTC+1 No.272943 Report

>>272040
>Aikido or something.

And die when some strung out streetfighter (yes, that's a thing) rips your liver out.

I'm not in favor of CC'ing while urbexing simply because any half assed prosecutor can make a decent case for premeditation if you actually have the misfortune to have to shoot somebody. Alternative idea: carry a decent staff. You can use it to hold off a crazy. It's not a perfect solution but it beats seeing your name in the newspapers as a slumming thrill killer.

That being said, if you're going to do it you have to carry some kind of equalizer. Trusting your life to some trendy martial art that you learned in a dojo under perfect conditions is mind-bogglingly stupid
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Anonymous 02/19/14(Wed)07:50 UTC+1 No.272946 Report

>>272046
>Even people who carry guns and actively commit crimes don't get charged with gun crime additions if they didn't use it

Arrant, irresponsible, irrevocable bullshit. What country are you in? OP is in the US, where firearms enhancements and charges are a thing. You are a fucking moron. Please don't breed
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Anonymous 02/19/14(Wed)07:55 UTC+1 No.272949 Report

>>272073
Chances of a security guard?
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Anonymous 02/19/14(Wed)07:58 UTC+1 No.272950 Report

>>272076
>Who do you think owns most abandoned buildings?

The bank that holds the note, fuckstick. Government entities avoid REO's like the plague. That was one lesson that came out of the S&L meltdown in the 80's. Yes, I'm old enough to remember it.
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Anonymous 02/19/14(Wed)08:18 UTC+1 No.272954 Report

>>272950
You're just wrong. An overwhelming number of them are held by the state.

In Ohio (where OP is asking about)? Unclaimed property, by law, must be turned over to the state, and revert to state control after 3 to 5 years. It's ridiculously obvious that you don't the slightest clue what-in-the-fuck you're talking about.

Here. Shut the fuck up and learn something: http://www.bizfilings.com/toolkit/sbg/finance/basic-accounting/unclaimed-property/ohio-unclaimed-property-rules.aspx
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Anonymous 02/19/14(Wed)08:40 UTC+1 No.272960 Report

>>272954
And it's true: most of these wouldn't be classified as forbidden zones for concealed-carry, in most situations. You were driving by something cool, stopped in the parking lot and took a couple pictures? No problem that you've got a gun on you. Most cops won't bother doing anything but telling you to keep going.

But if you break into them, in the middle of the night, carrying a weapon? A police officer will arrest you, if he finds you. And the prosecutor is going to push for the gun charges, because people creeping around abandoned buildings with guns at night seriously do concern public servants. Because that seems fucking crazy, and the guy your file lands on the desk of doesn't give a fuck if you're claiming to be an amateur artist, because it's a file on his desk and he wants to go to lunch, and you're some jerk sneaking around, breaking into buildings, carrying a gun.
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Anonymous 02/19/14(Wed)22:34 UTC+1 No.273215 Report

>>272954
Doesn't say a damn thing about real property. It gives a whole detailed listing of the various types of personal property that the law is applicable to, but nary a mention of buildings.

So, my original statement stands. You might want to educate yourself on the difference between real and personal property.
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