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Get your jacket jack, tug a...
Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)08:12 UTC+1 No.32952615 Report

Get your jacket jack, tug a tugger tubbie.
It's Warzone time!

>Full set of rules
http://warzonegame.com/images/wzrv1_1rules.pdf
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)09:17 UTC+1 No.32953163 Report

Is this actually any good?
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)13:47 UTC+1 No.32955069 Report

>>32953163
In a word? Yes.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)13:58 UTC+1 No.32955162 Report

>>32952615

Simple question. Some people were saying that heroes are overpowered and unbalanced just like special characters in 40k. You know I would give it a try but I don't want to see situations were whole units are annihilated by one god damn model. And after that those uber-dudes would fight against each other, because, well, there is nothing else that can stop them.

inb4 my eng sucks I know it
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)14:09 UTC+1 No.32955271 Report

>>32955162
Those people are talking about the custom heroes from the Heroes of the Solar System PDF, which contains expanded rules for making your own custom generals. It's in it's first revision at the moment, so people are flogging it as hard as they can to see what sort of hellish characters they can come up with and, hopefully, from this the next version of the document will include amendments and rewrites that make things less overpowered.

Standard characters from the rulebook are fine, as are ones you can build from the very basic custom character rules in the back of the rulebook. I'm uploading the PDF to my mediafire so you can have a read through it and see for yourself, incoming in next post.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)14:11 UTC+1 No.32955301 Report

>>32955162
>>32955271
https://www.mediafire.com/?dor3odoqr90dac4
Here it is.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)14:21 UTC+1 No.32955377 Report

Thought about it, then decided to upload all the WZR pdfs I have into the one folder for conveniences sake for when these threads crop up. Enjoy, everyone.

https://www.mediafire.com/#pt63meb2luoc3
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)16:07 UTC+1 No.32956196 Report

>>32952615
Huh, well this seems kinda cool...

> Uses True Line of Sight.

Aaaaaaand dropped.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)16:20 UTC+1 No.32956307 Report

I'm not much of a wargame guy, but anything that helps out the Mutant IP is great to me.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)16:37 UTC+1 No.32956477 Report

>>32955377
Thanks for sharing, Bro!

Just be sure to replace that # with ?
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)17:11 UTC+1 No.32956913 Report

>>32956196
Why do developers keep doing this? Why?
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)17:23 UTC+1 No.32957076 Report

>>32956913
Because believe it or not, there are dumbfucks who whine that TLoS is simpler and less abstract. In fact, it causes way more arguments than it avoids and becomes more abstract since you assume the model somehow is always assuming the pose it's modeled in.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)17:28 UTC+1 No.32957167 Report

>>32957076
Those people are terrible and should be ostracized for their terribleness.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)17:31 UTC+1 No.32957209 Report

>>32957167
You get no argument from me. For as balanced as people say Infinity is, I've seen some terrain bullshit go on in that game. It's the one thing keeping it from being good.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)17:37 UTC+1 No.32957277 Report

>>32955377
Doesn't work
The link I mean
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)17:40 UTC+1 No.32957322 Report

>>32957277
Swithch the hashtag to a question mark.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)18:15 UTC+1 No.32957730 Report

>>32956196
>>32956913
Not an experienced minis-player, but why is TLoS bad? What are the alternatives?
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)18:43 UTC+1 No.32958087 Report

>>32957730
TLoS is bad because it relies on the actual sculpts to determine LoS. This presents several problems. The most annoying is that certain poses will provide distinct advantages, for example having a crouching model that is easier to stick in cover or a model standing on top of a rock on its base to maximize LoS. It also tends to create situations where you can abuse the rules in such a way that you can shoot the enemy, but the enemy can never shoot back. It also is a rather odd exception to the generally accepted fundamental concept of wargaming, which is that the models represent actual beings that are not stuck in a single pose permanently.

But most importantly, it's a rule that causes endless arguments. See the 40k issues, where a crouching Fire Warrior could shoot under a transport that would block LoS for everyone else. Simply abstracting it, which any sensible wargame will do, by providing things a general height for example, makes LoS easier to calculate and more objective. When you have the rulebook actually suggest the player get down on the model's level and use a laser pointer to determine LoS, you dun fucked up beyond all recognition. It's fucking ridiculous when the issues could be easily resolved with a simple abstraction.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)18:50 UTC+1 No.32958196 Report

>>32958087
As a note, Infinity comes with one rule that I always thought was pretty brilliant - In the case of infantry models, you can always replace a model with the basic standing infantry if there's a conflict about who sees what.

That lets you do your crazy standing-on-rocks or sniping or whatever, but it's assumed that your models all have the profile of a basic standing infantrymen unless they're on a larger size base.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)18:55 UTC+1 No.32958279 Report

>>32957730
This >>32958087
The alternative is like everything else in the game, give it a stat to represent the abstraction. Take Warmachine/Hordes for an example, models take up a specific volume based on their size, not the model itself. A large based model is 2.75" tall from the base for determining LoS every time. So sculpts like the Behemoth or Typhon are not punished for having large, dynamic sculpts over something smaller and more conservative, like a Titan Bronzeback or an Ironclad.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)19:28 UTC+1 No.32958763 Report

>>32958087
>>32958279
> it relies on the actual sculpts to determine LoS

That is ..pretty retarded. I assumed LoS was measured from the centre of a figure's base, plain and simple.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)19:43 UTC+1 No.32958993 Report

>>32958196
That's better, but it's still a pretty shitty patchwork solution for an issue that wouldn't exist if they just used better LoS rules. It takes up additional time for something that doesn't really add anything. In Infinity specifically I've also seen issues where people used GW terrain (some kind of ruined building if memory serves me right), which turned out to be way too fucking good because of Infinity mechanics and had to be banned from the game. On an unrelated note, the fact there are models (TAGs and REMs specifically) that have sculpts that necessitate them having larger bases, which in turn leads to them being worse mechanically than similar models based purely on their sculpt, is complete bullshit too.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)19:49 UTC+1 No.32959071 Report

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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)19:50 UTC+1 No.32959088 Report

Are these guys still in?
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)21:11 UTC+1 No.32960385 Report

>>32958196
>In the case of infantry models, you can always replace a model with the basic standing infantry if there's a conflict about who sees what.
The issues I have with that are:

1 - Why not use abstract methods of line of sight so that you don't need to replace a miniature at all?

2 - What if your opponent picks up the model in question and doesn't put the new model down in the same place?
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)21:19 UTC+1 No.32960494 Report

>>32957730
One alternative is to have every model occupy an imaginary cylinder of space that starts at the bottom of their base and extends straight up a certain distance. How tall this cylinder is can be determined several ways. Either assigng each model a Height Number on their stats (like what MERCS does) or making a general rule about model heights based on their base size (like what WARMACHINE and HORDES do) seem like the best methods. Pic related.

You draw line of sight by drawing a straight line from one model's volume to another model's volume. If you can draw a line that does not pass through terrain, then you have line of sight. If you can't then you don't have line of sight to the model in question.

This allows players to convert their models without worrying about how it will affect the game, ensure that line of sight is (or can be) always reciprocal, allows you to replace a model with an empty base if terrain/figures/etc. won't allow models to get in close to each other, and a bunch of other benefits that true line of sight doesn't really cater to.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)22:15 UTC+1 No.32961364 Report

What is /tg/'s opinion on the heavy tanks? The Grizzly, Leviathan, and the Eradicator? I've seen the EDD IRL, it looks pretty nice, not sure about the others though.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)22:27 UTC+1 No.32961616 Report

>>32958196

The game also follows a pretty strict "You see me, I see you" rule. If your mini can draw LoS to one mini, they also have LoS to you unless there is a special condition in play like smoke grenades and visors, or camouflage.

>>32960385

You could have one offhand, or abstract it into a height measurement for the unit on a ruler so you don't have to physically replace anything.

And if someone doesn't put down a model in the same place, they're a faggot. I'd wager that someone who pulls that kind of shit in one game is more likely the kind of asshole who would pull it in another.
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)22:40 UTC+1 No.32961840 Report

>>32960385
Infinity's LOS system isn't as bad as 40K though as LOS is reciprocal, if a unit can see an enemy the enemy can always shoot back.

Infinity 3rd edition is confirmed to use a new LOS mechanic with silhouettes for each of the unit types will be interesting to see if its a soup can system like PP or something new
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Anonymous 06/23/14(Mon)23:46 UTC+1 No.32963053 Report

It feels weird to me seeing a book on /tg/ that one of my friends worked on.
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