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/tg/ - Traditional Games - Mana vs. Chi and where Alchemy falls into all this.

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Mana vs. Chi and where Alchemy...
Mana vs. Chi and where Alchemy falls into all this. Anonymous 05/24/14(Sat)21:46 UTC+1 No.32333844 Report

I was asking /co/ to clear up a concept for me, and they told me to ask you guys for insight on this as well.

To avoid repeating myself, I'll just link the thread.
>>>/co/62138888

You can either post there or here.

Thanks in advance /tg/.
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Anonymous 05/24/14(Sat)21:55 UTC+1 No.32333970 Report

They work, and relate to each other, in whatever way the authors feels like they should. That's all.
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Anonymous 05/24/14(Sat)21:56 UTC+1 No.32333994 Report

>>32333970
Yeah, but aren't a lot of them drawing from original ideas that actually exist? I mean, obviously not as dramatically as expressed, but the concepts are there.
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Anonymous 05/24/14(Sat)21:57 UTC+1 No.32334002 Report

it's not really clear what you're asking

these concepts come from different cultures with different ideas about how the world works, they don't fit together like a jigsaw.

read the wikipedia article on each of these things and then shove it into your setting how you feel best.
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Anonymous 05/24/14(Sat)21:58 UTC+1 No.32334015 Report

>>32333844
Chi/Ki/Qi is automatically internalized. It's the breath you take, hence the name. For the most part, honing it is just a matter of being aware of this resource and managing it in a more productive manner. It is intuitively perceived and largely has to do with more physical endeavors.

Mana is studied, for the most part. Largely, people do not intuit the force - moreover, it is not readily perceived. It is also an external force, something that someone conjures or manipulates into some effect. Though mana may flow through the body, it isn't utilized by the body through some automated process. Some authors will make it an automatic process of the soul - that's fine, but in general it is not as associated with the physical realm.

Alchemy is the study of patterns and the application of these discoveries. If it relates to mana, it's because mana must also be studied before its patterns are revealed. However, alchemy is triggered through physical objects, which makes it not necessarily tied to mana. If it relates to chi, it's because chi relates to its application, especially with regards to humans. However, chi doesn't reveal the patterns of alchemy, so it also isn't sufficient.

...ultimately, come up with your own system. Lots of authors change it up. Just be consistent.
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djin 05/24/14(Sat)22:06 UTC+1 No.32334189 Report

>ki, internal, physical energy improved and refined through training the body in cohesion with the mind.
>mana, external, arcane energy, a mystical force that permeates the universe and is a catalyst for change
>alchemy, purely scientific (fantasy science but scientific in nature), requires no input from the user other than knowledge of how natural things interact with each other. Even the transmutation circles can be explained as shapes naturally conductive to a process of alteration rather than just powered by magic.

That's how I've always run with it.
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Anonymous 05/24/14(Sat)22:31 UTC+1 No.32334641 Report

>>32334015
Ok, this is great.

Anywhere were I can read up some more on the fictional concepts of mana? The wiki article is shoddy at best.

>>32334189
This is more or less how I saw it as well.
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Anonymous 05/24/14(Sat)22:42 UTC+1 No.32334805 Report

>>32334641
well, if you really want to get clever, try reading up on polynesian culture/mythology.

books.google.co.uk/books?id=1Q2SAwAAQBAJ

there's a chapter about mana in this, I was able to access the whole chapter in the preview.
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Anonymous 05/24/14(Sat)22:48 UTC+1 No.32334911 Report

>>32334641
Mana is whatever the hell you want it to be. Life force, residual divine will, a gift from god, an otherworldly energy...

It's always been a very mutable concept. The key is to be consistent and to ensure that it adds to your setting/story.
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Anonymous 05/24/14(Sat)22:50 UTC+1 No.32334956 Report

>>32334911
>>32334805
Alright, that really helps.

I'll do some more research on the concept, and mold it accordingly to what I see fit. Thanks /tg/.
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Anonymous 05/24/14(Sat)23:55 UTC+1 No.32336000 Report

>>32333994
>Yeah, but aren't a lot of them drawing from original ideas that actually exist?
Chi is. It's a vital energy that flows through the body alone meridians, which are like ley lines carved into your spiritual flesh.

Mana, on the other hand, is based on the term 'manna,' which is a type of fictional grain from the bible.

So, basically, they're whatever the fictional author determines them to be. Generally speaking, mana is 'internal magic-fuel' and chi is 'body mana.' At least, that's the way lazy authors tend to characterize them.
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Anonymous 05/24/14(Sat)23:58 UTC+1 No.32336078 Report

>>32336000
>Mana, on the other hand, is based on the term 'manna,' which is a type of fictional grain from the bible.

No, it's from indigenous Polynesian religion. See >>32334805
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Anonymous 05/25/14(Sun)00:01 UTC+1 No.32336133 Report

>>32336078
Yeah, that's not the actual origin of the term as it's used in western fantasy literature. It's based on the manna/mana of the bible as a theomystical nourishing substance granted from YHWH. It has since mutated into what is, for all intents and purposes, Eastern-style chi used to fuel magic.

Just because Polynesia also has a 'mana' word doesn't mean that's where our fantasy authors got it from.
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Anonymous 05/25/14(Sun)00:15 UTC+1 No.32336381 Report

>>32336133
Do you have a source for that? The earliest usage of "mana" I can find in fantasy is from Niven's "The Magic Goes Away", where it's similar to Polynesian mana (eg. a magical energy) and not at all similar to Biblical manna (eg. grain). I can't see any basis for thinking it's derived from manna when Polynesian mana is much closer to the modern fantasy concept.
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