[ 3 / a / adv / an / asp / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / g / gd / int / jp / k / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / o / out / p / po / sci / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / v / vg / vp / vr / w / wsg / x]

/tg/ - Traditional Games

<< back to board
[Delete this thread]

File: 1392971329306.jpg-(694 KB, 3360x1050)
Tell me why The Horus Heresy...
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)09:56 UTC+1 No.34385560 Report

Tell me why The Horus Heresy isn't the coolest thing that's ever happened to Warhammer.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)10:03 UTC+1 No.34385653 Report

Because they realized they could sell a million books of it and decided to water it down into countless boring reads.

The first trilogy was god-tier though.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)10:14 UTC+1 No.34385776 Report

>>34385653
>The first trilogy was god-tier though.
So much nope. The first book was bretty gud but the seconds and third were awful.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)10:21 UTC+1 No.34385830 Report

>>34385776
Still better than the majority of what came afterwards. With the exception of a few gems we got heaps of crap and collections of crap short stories.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)10:29 UTC+1 No.34385922 Report

>>34385560
Too many cooks all trying to gt their own special snowflake ingredients into the same pot.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)10:31 UTC+1 No.34385945 Report

>>34385776
Nope, ???????, i think, he's right.First three books was 10/10: it is full of hope about prosper of humanity, but then shit started to happen and it is shown brilliantly - split in legion, cooling relationships in Mournival and in the third book finally and irrevocably shown crush of all hopes.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)10:31 UTC+1 No.34385946 Report

>>34385830
>crap short stories
There about as many gems in the short stories as there are in the longer ones. More even.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)10:35 UTC+1 No.34385993 Report

>>34385945
>shown brilliantly
I respectfully disagree. I think Horus lacked any consistent characterisation, the Mournival veered from brothers in arms (first book) to down right hostile (most of the second book). Of course, this is always going to be a problem with multiple writers. But it's still hugely disappointing.

We weren't given enough reason for the Betrayal or even why Horus was on the moon to get shanked. It's a pet peeve of mine that they spent so much time calling him a godlike warrior, caring commander and incredible strategist and then his reasoning went "That man said something rude about me? Better march all my men into an obvious trap and not listen to people saying that maybe we should be a little careful. Who cares if they die, it's not like they've been repeatedly described as being as dear to me as sons". I mean, come on.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)10:44 UTC+1 No.34386076 Report

>>34385560
They do seem hit or miss to me, though I admit the dark angels novels hit me a bit in the feels, though the best I've found so far was the sigillite audo drama. I also tend toward the Dan Abnett books, however meh, as he was the author that I first read in terms of any leasure reading.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)10:50 UTC+1 No.34386148 Report

>>34385560
>100% marine wank that no longer is relevant in the setting, because it happened 10k years ago
>best thing ever to happen

naw, mate, you are just full of shit
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)10:52 UTC+1 No.34386180 Report

>>34385993
> I think Horus lacked any consistent characterisation
??? ?????? ???????? ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H shit
I think that it was made for a reason, I mean not showing his personnality fully. We know, that Horus was a brilliant diplomatist, strategist and warrior (sucked to Temba, ya). I thin taht author just gave us a place for a "maneur" - thinking of Horus in your own way.
> We weren't given enough reason for the Betrayal
He was lef alone with a bunch of bureaucrats, which was destroying all his deeds by collecting taxes from planetns, and ?????????, ???? ????? ????? chroniclers, which made him look terribly in theirs (is it right to say it that way?) works. Afterr all this shit, Chaos Gods show him a film, where he had been forgotten, after all his deeds, and Emperor became a God.
Also, Emeror did not say why he's leaving Great Crusade, and that really harmed Warmaster - he was the first one and the lovely one, but Emperor didn't fully trust even him.
sorry for shitty english
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)10:52 UTC+1 No.34386181 Report

First 3, Fulgrim, Thousand Sons are my favorite of the series by far. Have not read past Know no Fear yet cuz I kind of got burned out on the constant tease of covering the same time period of after istavaan but before the march to terra.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)10:55 UTC+1 No.34386224 Report

Also, "Prospero burns" really dissapointed me: only a few last chapters in a book was about burning Prospero.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)10:55 UTC+1 No.34386226 Report

>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)11:00 UTC+1 No.34386282 Report

>>34386180
>??? ?????? ???????? ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H shit
I have no idea what that means.

>I think that it was made for a reason, I mean not showing his personality fully. I think that author just gave us a place for a "maneur" - thinking of Horus in your own way.
I hadn't thought about it like that, but I'm afraid I still disagree. Horus simply lacked any personality because, in my opinion, the multitude of writers that were writing him couldn't keep anything consistent. Each tried to make him seem sympathetic in their own way but each made it worse.

>He was lef alone with a bunch of bureaucrats, which was destroying all his deeds by collecting taxes from planetns, and ?????????, ???? ????? ????? chroniclers, which made him look terribly in theirs (is it right to say it that way?) works. Afterr all this shit, Chaos Gods show him a film, where he had been forgotten, after all his deeds, and Emperor became a God.
I never believed in the film. He was told, by the Big E himself, that the things in the warp can try and tempt you. And yet he straight off believed what was put in front of him. Despite all the talk about loyalty and willpower, it took a half hour presentation to sway him to the cause of chaos. Also, I understand the annoyance with the bureaucrats but it doesn't provide nearly enough reason to turn traitor, just more incentive to have a chat with dad.

>Also, Emeror did not say why he's leaving Great Crusade, and that really harmed Warmaster - he was the first one and the lovely one, but Emperor didn't fully trust even him.
True, but still not enough reason for betrayal considering all the talk abotu loyalty. They spent so much time bigging him up with descriptions of his greatness, only for him to fall so easily.

>sorry for shitty english
No problem, it's a learning experience for us both.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)11:03 UTC+1 No.34386317 Report

>>34386226
>Not posting the whole thing
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)11:04 UTC+1 No.34386339 Report

>>34386181
My opinion exactly and I'm also stuck at more or less the same point. Except I'm currently somewhere in Primarchs I think and never really recovered from the shite that was Reflection Crack'd
To the list of good books I'd also add The First Heretic but that pretty much covers it.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)11:08 UTC+1 No.34386388 Report

>>34386339
Graham McNeil's books (apart from the Second one of the first trilogy) are all great, read those.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)11:12 UTC+1 No.34386424 Report

>>34386282
> I have no idea what that means.
I forgot to change languages.
> I hadn't thought about it like that, but I'm afraid I still disagree. Horus simply lacked any personality because, in my opinion, the multitude of writers that were writing him couldn't keep anything consistent. Each tried to make him seem sympathetic in their own way but each made it worse.
You may be righ.
> I never believed in the film. He was told, by the Big E himself, that the things in the warp can try and tempt you. And yet he straight off believed what was put in front of him. Despite all the talk about loyalty and willpower, it took a half hour presentation to sway him to the cause of chaos. Also, I understand the annoyance with the bureaucrats but it doesn't provide nearly enough reason to turn traitor, just more incentive to have a chat with dad.
Well, i tried to find any arguments against, but i couldn't. Big E was a shitty father, but a great ruler.
> True, but still not enough reason for betrayal considering all the talk abotu loyalty.
Is was a crack in a Horus' soul, that Chaos Gods used to posses him.

Well, it was nice to talk to you m but now i gotta go to mah work.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)11:13 UTC+1 No.34386438 Report

>>34385560
It was a very cool idea for the background, and certainly one of the best things in it. But, like spess mehreens in general, it seems to suffer from overexposure. Plus as a game setting it's inherently limited.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)11:13 UTC+1 No.34386441 Report

>>34386388
He's a bit of a hit or miss for me. Thousand Sons was brilliant but I found Mechanicum to be mediocre and Outcast Dead was already based on a bad premise.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)11:16 UTC+1 No.34386472 Report

>>34386441
>Mechanicum
I liked that one, but fair enough. I never read Outcast Dead.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)13:09 UTC+1 No.34387436 Report

>>34386224
yeah but to be fair it was the first book on the Space Wolves, of course there wouldn't be all about Prospero Burns. It's twin, A Thousand Sons, did the same.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)13:10 UTC+1 No.34387446 Report

>>34386388
Angel Ex was top notch, finally an Iron Warriors book.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)13:24 UTC+1 No.34387556 Report

>>34386339
>To the list of good books I'd also add The First Heretic
>Crying Word Bearers who wont except that fire is hot
>Good
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)13:27 UTC+1 No.34387578 Report

At first I really enjoyed the first three but after recently rereading them found them to be cringe worthy, almost like a fanfiction wrote by a teenager. The books that I've read multiple times and been able to enjoy are First Heretic and Betrayer. I liked Scars when I read it but not enough happens in it to keep me occupied for a second read. Currently half way through Vengeful Spirit and really enjoying it. I keep almost buying Thousand Sons/Prospero Burns but hold myself back every time because whenever Space Wolves turn up in the books they annoy the shit out of me, with the exception of Bjorn they are all portrayed as aggressive confrontational dickbags.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)13:36 UTC+1 No.34387653 Report

>>34387578
>aggressive confrontational dickbags.
In Thousand Sons, this is what they are. Want to hear a story about them that will make you cringe from TS?
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)13:37 UTC+1 No.34387665 Report

>>34387653
Is it worth reading? Even if the Wolves are cocks?
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)13:42 UTC+1 No.34387708 Report

>>34387665
>Is it worth reading?
It's okay. Some parts are great and they handle Magnus quite well. He's powerful and wise, but truly believes he knows best. While this leads to his downfall, you can never really hate him for it or hate the writers, which is more than can be said for a lot of HH.

On the other hand, huge tracts of it are very boring and add little or nothing to the story. And Ahriman can be quite irritating.


One piece of advice; pick between Space Wolves and Thousand Sons. Then read EITHER Prospero Burns or A Thousand Sons. DO NOT READ BOTH. Prospero burns spends a lot of time retconning things that happened in TS (it was published later by a different author) to make it look like the TS are bad guys who were always plotting to attack the Imperium. One of the TS in PB actually tries to kill a Custodes. No joke. It's unsubtle and quite sad but if you read it first you migth think the same of A Thousand Sons.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)13:43 UTC+1 No.34387718 Report

>>34387708
>One of the TS in PB actually tries to kill a Custodes. No joke.

It was a daemon.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)13:47 UTC+1 No.34387747 Report

>>34387718
Oh, right. I'd kind of forgotten that...

But regardless, there's a shit ton of Retconning. Like the opening sequence. The Thousand Sons are suddenly jack asses who steal knowledge from scholars, when A Thousand Sons had them being very friendly with Remembrancers and even working with them.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)13:50 UTC+1 No.34387783 Report

>>34387747
>>34387718
>>34387708
Cool, thanks for the advice.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)13:54 UTC+1 No.34387820 Report

>>34386181
The fact that people believe that the Horus Heresy consisted of Istvaan III -> Istvaan V -> Terra with Signus, Calth, and Prosperous thrown in is why the fan base is so bitchy all the time. The Horus Heresy was massive and covered 7 years between Istvaan V and Terra, with another 7 years between Ullanor and Istvaan III. Imagine a book series called World War II that only ever covered the invasion of Poland and France, pearl harbor, D-day, Battle of the Bulge and the atomic bombs. What would be the point if they're not actually going to detail things we didn't already know about?
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)13:56 UTC+1 No.34387851 Report

>>34387820
It seems like bull that in 40K it's supposed to take months to travel through the warp but the war goes on for what? Two years before the siege of Terra? Seems very wrong...
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)13:57 UTC+1 No.34387860 Report

>>34386438
What about it makes it limited? You want to fight xenos? Make it Great Crusade era. You want to flight chaos? Make it late heresy era. Not to mention with few exceptions every legion had every type of fighting force so you can make pretty much any type of army you want.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)13:57 UTC+1 No.34387867 Report

>>34386317
>the whole thing
>not including the fucking picture
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)13:59 UTC+1 No.34387883 Report

>>34387747
>>34387708
>retconning
You understand the concept of different perspectives right?
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)14:05 UTC+1 No.34387933 Report

>>34387851
What are you talking about? The war went on for 6 years. Istvaan V, 556.006.M31. Terra, 213.012.M31.
Horus new set planned to go straight to Terra. If he had he would've been trapped there. That's why the Shadow Crusade and the Thramas Crusade were so important, not to mention places like Paramar and Tallarn that were along important warp routes.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)14:06 UTC+1 No.34387946 Report

>>34387933
Never planned*

Gotta get off this phone.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)14:17 UTC+1 No.34388049 Report

>Of all the battles Loken had fought at his commander’s side, that was the fiercest, the saddest, the most vicious. Teeth bared in the firelight, swinging his blade at the foe on all sides, Horus seemed more noble than Loken had ever known. He would remember that moment, years later, when fate had played its cruel trick and sense had turned upside down. He would remember Horus, Warmaster, in that narrow firelit street, defining the honour and unyielding courage of the Imperium of Man.

>There should have been frescoes painted, poems written, symphonies composed, all to celebrate that instant when Horus made his most absolute statement of devotion to the Throne.

>And to his father.

>There would be none. The hateful future swallowed up such possibilities, swallowed the memories too, until the very fact of that nobility became impossible to believe.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)14:18 UTC+1 No.34388059 Report

>>34386317

that is fucking brilliant
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)15:45 UTC+1 No.34388930 Report

I don't really like the HH books that much but if nothing else they really made Fulgrim an awesome son of a bitch.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)15:48 UTC+1 No.34388969 Report

>>34385560
Because myths and legends are better as myths and legends. King Arthur was probably a pretty interesting guy, but nowhere near as mystical or larger than life as the legend he became.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)16:11 UTC+1 No.34389272 Report

>>34387851
Going by The First Heretic the Chaos Gods were bending over backwards to calm down warp storms and make travel quick and easy, at least for the traitors. The Word Bearers took a journey a quarter of the way across the galaxy to Istvaan V in thirty-something days. The same journey would normally take years.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)16:14 UTC+1 No.34389302 Report

>>34385560
because it's the only cool thing to happen, it's only in that position by default
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)16:15 UTC+1 No.34389322 Report

>>34385560
It was.
And then Black Library starting writing about it. Not it's one of the dumbest things ever. And I'm pretty sure the last 5 books are a competition to out retard each other
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)16:16 UTC+1 No.34389328 Report

>>34389272
>‘Argel Tal informs me we will reach Isstvan in thirty-nine days. Upon arrival, the Serrated Sun will rejoin the Legion and deploy alongside the other Word Bearers. No Army, Mechanicum or external forces are to join the assault, including us. This is an Astartes concern, apparently. They wish us to take command of four smaller vessels, to aid in repelling boarders. I have acquiesced to this.’
>The others turned to him. Most nodded in acceptance at the honour offered to them, though they were still troubled.
>‘Thirty-nine days?’ asked Nirallus.
>‘Yes.’
>‘That is incredulously quick,’ Kalhin said. ‘We’ve spent years pushing through turgid tides and bringing backwater worlds to compliance, and suddenly the Navigators are reporting clean warp-lanes all the way to where we need to be? A quarter of the way across the galaxy? That journey should take a decade.’
>‘The warp has cleared,’ reiterated Cartik.
>‘In good tides, it is still a journey of many months. Even years.’
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)18:07 UTC+1 No.34391119 Report

>>34385560
Because the war in heaven happened.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)18:29 UTC+1 No.34391425 Report

>>34385560

Because the Rest of Warhammer 40,000 came after it

And the rest of 40k is shit.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)19:02 UTC+1 No.34391884 Report

>>34385560
I thought it was the hottest?

Also, posting inferior BL books covers instead of superior FW things.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)19:45 UTC+1 No.34392511 Report

>>34385653
>The first trilogy was god-tier though.

I mean, I guess compared to the standard Black Library book they were pretty fantastic. But AT BEST those three books are mediocre. There is no such thing as a great BL author. Just authors passable enough to sell lots and lots of "meh" shit to 40k fags.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)20:59 UTC+1 No.34393825 Report

>>34392511

Dan Abnett is just a good author in general.
>>
Anonymous 08/25/14(Mon)21:01 UTC+1 No.34393853 Report

>>34391119
>War in Heaven novel series

Yesh please!
All the content on this website comes from 4chan.org. All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster. 4chanArchive is not affiliated with 4chan.