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Anonymous 06/11/14(Wed)00:37 UTC+1 No.32699015 Report

This is driving me fucking insane. What is the CR for an NPC of X Player Character level?

Like a Dwarven 1st level Druid?
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Anonymous 06/11/14(Wed)00:39 UTC+1 No.32699055 Report

>>32699015

Useless information.CR by level doesn't factor in levels of WHAT, nor what tools that NPC can bring to bear. You're pretty much on your own, unless someone knows of a "CR for Dummies"-style guide that revamps the awful, awful CR system.
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Cosmonaut 06/11/14(Wed)00:43 UTC+1 No.32699121 Report

>>32699015
If you mean all the 'main' classes, it honestly changes with each. A monk of 1st level is almost always more difficult to fight then a 1st level wizard.

Generally I would bunch the classes into 2 CR's. .75 CR for the shitty level 1 classes (cleric, druid, sorcerer, wizard etc) and 1.00 CR for the better early classes (fighter, paladin, ranger, monk etc).

A 4 v. 4 party battle should be roughly equal CR in a campaign where you are not overtly trying to kill the players.

If you have any experience in 3.5 or Pathfinder or whatever edition you are running, you will most likely know what the shitty classes are.
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Anonymous 06/11/14(Wed)00:48 UTC+1 No.32699230 Report

>>32699121

It's also going to ramp at wildly different rates. A lvl 5 Fighter is probably not the CR5 it is on paper, while a lvl 5 Wizard (build dependent) might be more like CR7.
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Anonymous 06/11/14(Wed)00:50 UTC+1 No.32699264 Report

>>32699230
And a first level Druid has its own CR1 Wolf and can immediately pump out 2 more.
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Anonymous 06/11/14(Wed)00:51 UTC+1 No.32699282 Report

>>32699121
>shitty level 1 classes (cleric, druid
>druid
>shitty at level 1

Dude, what?
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Anonymous 06/11/14(Wed)00:51 UTC+1 No.32699291 Report

>>32699015
The problem with this is that it comes down to luck, if you're throwing in a classed NPC it boils down to dice rolls more than anything else. If you're going to make it a steady threat you have to modify it so that it's got a heavier likelihood of doing certain things and penetrating the defenses those certain things revolve around.

Give a super strength monster a weapon with super low damage dice, it'll break through AC more often than not and you don't need it getting a triple damage crit on a weapon rolling 2d8, it already packs a guaranteed 10 damage to every hit. Multiple attacks per round and that will cause massive hurt to anything.

If it's a spellcaster, penetrate spell resistance or grant it nifty ways to increase the DC of its favored saves. Less reliance on rolling, and hopefully less chances of outright murdering characters with little opportunity to retaliate.

This being said, I like CR to be "How high is the PC going to be when they can only take 3 hits from the average damage this thing dishes out?" if it's something that's using class levels. My reasoning for that is that you should have a group of lower CR monsters to keep the group tied down and then make it apparent that there are 1 to 3 serious threats to the party's entire existence.

It's been the only method that really works in my games, and really it is dependent on what the characters in question are doing. An NPC with the ECL of 15 might be the same CR as an ECL 12, 16, or even just a 10. It's all up to what tactics that individual NPC employs when it comes to making the party miserable.
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Cosmonaut 06/11/14(Wed)00:53 UTC+1 No.32699336 Report

>>32699230
The point is for level 1's. Classes scale differently as they level up.

I was talking in the context of level 1's, but if you were to change what I had said up a bit - I would probably say the class gap starts to balance out around level 5, and then starts tilting towards the druid, wizard, cleric and paladin - with the fighter, sorcerer, monk and ranger starting to depreciate in value.
>>32699282
I have had limited exposure to different party styles (I usually stick with the same people, who boringly enough want to play the same class). But the one time I had been shown a druid at level 1, he died halfway through because his dog got fucking carved up by a bear and then himself as he dived to pull the remains out.
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Anonymous 06/11/14(Wed)00:55 UTC+1 No.32699381 Report

>>32699336
>I have had limited exposure to different party styles (I usually stick with the same people, who boringly enough want to play the same class).
Ignorance isn't an excuse when the game you're talking about is over a decade old.

>But the one time I had been shown a druid at level 1, he died halfway through because his dog got fucking carved up by a bear and then himself as he dived to pull the remains out.
Doubly so here, since you don't even need to see a Druid played properly to know he was doing three things stupendously wrong.
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Cosmonaut 06/11/14(Wed)00:58 UTC+1 No.32699422 Report

>>32699381
What crawled up your ass and died.
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Anonymous 06/11/14(Wed)01:00 UTC+1 No.32699465 Report

>>32699422
You misleading a new player with ignorant bullshit.
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Cosmonaut 06/11/14(Wed)01:03 UTC+1 No.32699527 Report

>>32699465
Sorry no one can be a supa srs gamrrrr like you, bud.
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Anonymous 06/11/14(Wed)01:06 UTC+1 No.32699573 Report

>>32699121
>Clerics
>shitty at first level
>claims Fighters are good at first level in the same fucking sentence
Are you mentally disabled? Have you even looked at the difference between those classes at first level?
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Anonymous 06/11/14(Wed)01:17 UTC+1 No.32699808 Report

>>32699336
>and then starts tilting towards the druid, wizard, cleric and paladin
>PALADIN
>a shit tier T5 class that is not exceptionally good even against what it claims it specializes in unless you optimize to the degree that makes CoDzilla and Wizards break the game
>lumping it in with Cleric, Wizard, and Druid EVER
>lumping Sorceror, a class that is nothing but a slightly inferior Wizard, in with the Fighter and Monk
How many times were you dropped on your head as a baby? Jesus fucking christ, stop your shit.
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Anonymous 06/11/14(Wed)01:45 UTC+1 No.32700389 Report

>>32699527
Ad Hominem. Go home, Cosmonaut. At best, you're drunk.
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Anonymous 06/11/14(Wed)01:47 UTC+1 No.32700416 Report

To give OP a straight answer, level 1 player character equivalent is cr 1/2, level 2 is cr 1, level 3 is cr 2, level 4 is cr 3, continuing that pattern from then on.
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Anonymous 06/11/14(Wed)01:48 UTC+1 No.32700443 Report

>>32699230
while a lvl 5 Wizard (build dependent) might be more like CR7.

That's a funny joke. An APL 4 party would shit all over a 5th level wizard.
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Anonymous 06/11/14(Wed)01:50 UTC+1 No.32700463 Report

>>32699015

Why is the human body so scary
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Anonymous 06/11/14(Wed)01:50 UTC+1 No.32700464 Report

Even if CR is inaccurate, it's used to calculate experience.
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Anonymous 06/11/14(Wed)01:51 UTC+1 No.32700481 Report

>>32700463
Because people don't like seeing themselves with their skin removed.
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Anonymous 06/11/14(Wed)01:54 UTC+1 No.32700516 Report

>>32699808

This is why you ignore the existence of namefags completely.
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